From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:36226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QJmWZ-0007jU-HS for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2011 08:58:53 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QJmWX-0006Or-Ca for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2011 08:58:51 -0400 Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.212.45]:64974) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QJmWX-0006Om-7S for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 10 May 2011 08:58:49 -0400 Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so540111vws.4 for ; Tue, 10 May 2011 05:58:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20110510115630.GA1811@amd.home.annexia.org> References: <20110510115630.GA1811@amd.home.annexia.org> From: Bruno Lamps Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:58:19 -0300 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec50162214df7cc04a2eb8422 Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [virt-tools-list] Virt Tools Survey: What to do about virt-clone List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: virt-tools-list@redhat.com Cc: virt@lists.fedoraproject.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Cole Robinson --bcaec50162214df7cc04a2eb8422 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > (a) Is cloning guests useful for you or not? Often or infrequently? > I clone VMs once os twice a month. It's usefull for creating test environments for the applications this company runs, and to safely backup a VM before doing some change of update. (b) Do you currently use virt-clone to clone guests? > I use virt-manager. Don't know what command virt-manager uses. I just right click the VM and clone it. (c) Do you have a homebrew method to clone guests? What does it do? I don't. If I need to clone a VM without virt-manager, I would make copies of VM hard disk and vm XML, you know, manually copy the stuff. (d) Do you use another tool to clone guests? (And how is it?) No, I don't. (e) When you clone a guest, do you "sysprep" it or would you like to? > (Using the term "sysprep" generically here, I mean any sort of > reinitialization for Linux or Windows guests). > I don't. Just change the MAC address (specially in windows guests). (f) How do you feel about a multi-step process? I really would enjoy having more options when cloning machine, could save lots of time in here. I don't resize cloned machines, for example. When I need to change the size of the cloned machine, I just create a new one from scratch. (g) Have you had other problems with cloning guests? > If I change the Mac address of the NICs of a linux guest, O.S. can't find the NIC anymore. It's a problem to me, since I started working with linux servers about a year ago and I'm still (! lol) not familiar with "manually adding hardware"... (h) What have I missed out in this analysis? What other features have > you missed in virt-clone? > Can't remember any right now... =D On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > I've volunteered for the task of fixing virt-clone[0]. There are a > number of bugs which need to be addressed. Unfortunately the current > virt-clone is broken-by-design since it cannot make changes inside the > guest. > > [0] http://linux.die.net/man/1/virt-clone > > The bugs boil down to what Microsoft calls "sysprepping" the clone, > which is to say, removing its existing identity, hostname, ssh host > keys, persistent network rules, host SID and workgroup name (for > Windows). It's helpful for Linux guests to remove some of this > stuff[1] -- it will make the cloning process smoother. For Windows > it's absolutely required[2]. > > [1] > https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/tip-my-procedure-for-cloning-a-fedora-vm/ > [2] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc721940%28WS.10%29.aspx > > All that virt-clone can do now is to copy the guest and make some > simple changes to the libvirt XML (eg. giving it a new MAC address). > It doesn't even address the sysprepping problem. > > The problem with sysprepping is that it's hard to do, and it's > different for every operating system. I've summarized some of the > techniques below. Worse than that, for some OSes there are different > levels of sysprepping that an administrator might want; also see > below. > > So I'd like feedback from "virt-clone next generation" users: > > (a) Is cloning guests useful for you or not? Often or infrequently? > > (b) Do you currently use virt-clone to clone guests? > > (c) Do you have a homebrew method to clone guests? What does it do? > > (d) Do you use another tool to clone guests? (And how is it?) > > (e) When you clone a guest, do you "sysprep" it or would you like to? > (Using the term "sysprep" generically here, I mean any sort of > reinitialization for Linux or Windows guests). > > (f) How do you feel about a multi-step process? > > virt-clone -> virt-sysprep -> virt-resize (for example) > > (g) Have you had other problems with cloning guests? > > (h) What have I missed out in this analysis? What other features have > you missed in virt-clone? > > Sysprepping Windows > ------------------- > > This is a complex, manual process. We do some steps to automate it in > RHEV. It's best to read Microsoft's online documentation at > [2][3][4]. > > [3] http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302577 > [4] http://blogs.technet.com/b/megand/archive/2005/01/20/357570.aspx > > Fedora > ------ > > In theory you can just write a file /.unconfigured in the root, and > Fedora will go through the firstboot process at next boot (it will > reset timezone, root password, netconfig, keyboard, authentication). > > Some admins will *not* want all of these things to be reset, and will > want either a lesser degree of unconfiguration, or will want to > control each thing manually. > > I'm not totally convinced that this hasn't been broken by systemd > introduction in Fedora 15. > > general Linux > ------------- > > See [1]. > > Rich. > > -- > Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat > http://people.redhat.com/~rjones > virt-df lists disk usage of > guests without needing to install any > software inside the virtual machine. Supports Linux and Windows. > http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/ > > _______________________________________________ > virt-tools-list mailing list > virt-tools-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/virt-tools-list > --bcaec50162214df7cc04a2eb8422 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(a) Is cloning gu= ests useful for you or not? =A0Often or infrequently?

I= clone VMs once os twice a month. It's usefull for creating test enviro= nments for the applications this company runs, and to safely backup a VM be= fore doing some change of update.

(b) Do you cu= rrently use virt-clone to clone guests?

I use virt-mana= ger. Don't know what command virt-manager uses. I just right click the = VM and clone it.

(c) Do you have a homebrew method to clone guests? =A0What = does it do?

I don't. If I need to clone a VM withou= t virt-manager, I would make copies of VM hard disk and vm XML, you know, m= anually copy the stuff.

(d) Do you use another tool to clone guests? =A0(And how is= it?)

No, I don't.

(e) When you clone a guest, do you "sysprep" it or would you like= to?
(Using the term "sysprep" generically here, I mean any sort of reinitialization for Linux or Windows guests).

I don= 9;t. Just change the MAC address (specially in windows guests).

(f) How do you feel about a multi-step process?

I really would enjoy having more options when cloning machine, could sa= ve lots of time in here. I don't resize cloned machines, for example. W= hen I need to change the size of the cloned machine, I just create a new on= e from scratch.

(g) Have you = had other problems with cloning guests?

If I change the= Mac address of the NICs of a linux guest, O.S. can't find the NIC anym= ore. It's a problem to me, since I started working with linux servers a= bout a year ago and I'm still (! lol) not familiar with "manually = adding hardware"...

(h) What have= I missed out in this analysis? =A0What other features have
you missed in virt-clone?

Can't remember any right = now... =3DD

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:56 = AM, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones@redhat.com> wrote:
I've volunteered for the task of fixing= virt-clone[0]. =A0There are a
number of bugs which need to be addressed. =A0Unfortunately the current
virt-clone is broken-by-design since it cannot make changes inside the
guest.

=A0[0] http://linux.die.net/man/1/virt-clone

The bugs boil down to what Microsoft calls "sysprepping" the clon= e,
which is to say, removing its existing identity, hostname, ssh host
keys, persistent network rules, host SID and workgroup name (for
Windows). =A0It's helpful for Linux guests to remove some of this
stuff[1] -- it will make the cloning process smoother. =A0For Windows
it's absolutely required[2].

=A0[1] https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/= 09/24/tip-my-procedure-for-cloning-a-fedora-vm/
=A0[2] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/c= c721940%28WS.10%29.aspx

All that virt-clone can do now is to copy the guest and make some
simple changes to the libvirt XML (eg. giving it a new MAC address).
It doesn't even address the sysprepping problem.

The problem with sysprepping is that it's hard to do, and it's
different for every operating system. =A0I've summarized some of the techniques below. =A0Worse than that, for some OSes there are different
levels of sysprepping that an administrator might want; also see
below.

So I'd like feedback from "virt-clone next generation" users:=

(a) Is cloning guests useful for you or not? =A0Often or infrequently?

(b) Do you currently use virt-clone to clone guests?

(c) Do you have a homebrew method to clone guests? =A0What does it do?

(d) Do you use another tool to clone guests? =A0(And how is it?)

(e) When you clone a guest, do you "sysprep" it or would you like= to?
(Using the term "sysprep" generically here, I mean any sort of reinitialization for Linux or Windows guests).

(f) How do you feel about a multi-step process?

=A0virt-clone -> virt-sysprep -> virt-resize (for example)

(g) Have you had other problems with cloning guests?

(h) What have I missed out in this analysis? =A0What other features have you missed in virt-clone?

Sysprepping Windows
-------------------

This is a complex, manual process. =A0We do some steps to automate it in RHEV. =A0It's best to read Microsoft's online documentation at
[2][3][4].

=A0[3] http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302577
=A0[4] http://blogs.technet.com/b/megand/archive/2005/= 01/20/357570.aspx

Fedora
------

In theory you can just write a file /.unconfigured in the root, and
Fedora will go through the firstboot process at next boot (it will
reset timezone, root password, netconfig, keyboard, authentication).

Some admins will *not* want all of these things to be reset, and will
want either a lesser degree of unconfiguration, or will want to
control each thing manually.

I'm not totally convinced that this hasn't been broken by systemd introduction in Fedora 15.

general Linux
-------------

See [1].

Rich.

--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjon= es
virt-df lists disk usage of guests without needing to install any
software inside the virtual machine. =A0Supports Linux and Windows.
http:= //et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-df/

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