From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3163C433DB for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:36:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B9E12253A for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 00:36:52 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 3B9E12253A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=bsdimp.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:51680 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7g2-0006E9-GC for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:36:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41556) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7dW-0005Af-9t for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:34:14 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]:43758) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kz7dS-0007l9-IX for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:34:14 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id 143so510024qke.10 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:34:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=x/tfQhQcPylqQJGQk0ELoz5z5KRO6wY7/ebAxXFbToE=; b=ORrm0t2/L4RciNaGzS1qilV3cNunhsERTmiU2YB+Hn1vEOZylAMGHW3rpAxPjOzZFI /UkJHvJ7qSd6HgD2JcgllARwPelIM7V6sECpbC7zl3cnpffpM/P1toaL+rw6jRMBNKcy KSvZ9TAYJ0tH0KOY4GgDlCNcRx7uAQlNehQrMpRLEkHUDzU1YbwBQ70/KOAKezNAIv7f OfjflEeghDba2dGkxCXLoBuwvNAFcmRWSjbL42zJ/08f5tsBRiotO/sqZRqgX5sP7ftx IYOgWSbLxSlDiPc5H7Iv9OPf0sAZChw+rT0qcxQYT1mlegX1hGStEbDeycj1zqnr07tq hblw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=x/tfQhQcPylqQJGQk0ELoz5z5KRO6wY7/ebAxXFbToE=; b=RlZopXI6gY73xPKN914Zy3XcQpDKLjcrkSOdPF+1AI2NGoUocodTgP1yjk4W7H632N 50nA5HaP0tpISXrnEv/7xZhPZUbyND7UOkmFsFdnLgAdMwrJsaNL1jZR4STZ5X4Y7BIu QBCpC4Jl8A969e0moC/BHGCsqODP0IxJN3BM2IbgJkoMWnQcUVndZFo4t60c6Er2m8Hi XC7UBPJgkEubP6ptYU6D6z0KjEwzl0QM6/KNIqszqWZsb2upYDtRgRAsTsXCSChJHBW0 4fC3wX9sAH9GDvhWvzNpH2Wf67DDMeAp/UktlSDqzdlHgkD4u0BLDeXAQz6Xth0uuse4 ZdEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532bYFMoag8mwhiK+C5KGrdE/pHEbAhxjZx8dVHypfH5wU8enVmH f673wUOISvFRIZVcVVsXJ8FYt2stlKqrotnIOpZ28g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwqB/yA4yEFS5VEro5MX7O6HAFjaqOiMTS4mTZCvaviNn6QBrPfoTj+tpo5vK6zoVFPxBvAEN8SQpcpYHJ2+L8= X-Received: by 2002:a37:8505:: with SMTP id h5mr1992091qkd.44.1610411648971; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:34:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210111132701.GD1172772@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20210111132701.GD1172772@redhat.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 17:33:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: qemu bsd-user plans To: =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000478cc305b8a92e9c" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::736; envelope-from=wlosh@bsdimp.com; helo=mail-qk1-x736.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: QEMU Developers Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" --000000000000478cc305b8a92e9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 6:27 AM Daniel P. Berrang=C3=A9 wrote: > On Fri, Jan 08, 2021 at 12:41:30PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > The FreeBSD project has rewritten bsd-user. We've been working on this > for > > quite some time (the earliest commits date from 2013). Maybe a dozen > people > > have worked on this over time, and there's 3 or 4 active developers > focused > > on FreeBSD changes at the moment. > > The fact that you have 3-4 people involved in this work is will be very > helpful to you going forward with a QEMU maintenance. > > The biggest problem with getting code merged into QEMU is an insufficient > number of reviewers for the amount of patches sent. Since we have a rule > that patches need a review from someone else who isn't the author, if the= re > are two people with expertize to review patches in a given QEMU subsystem= , > then they can become self-sufficient and review each others patches on > qemu-devel, which then makes merging much more productive. > Yes. That's my hope too. We've been doing this internally for changes we've been landing lately, so I think expanding our process to also do this with qemu upstream will be a natural progression... > If anyone wants to be automatically CC'd on patches for bsd-user for the > purposes of acting as a designated reviewer, they can added to MAINTAINER= S > file to, alongside the primary maintainer(s). > I'll be adding myself, at least, to MAINTAINERS and encouraging the others that have been working on this to take the time to review when I post. They are quite willing, but may lack the time, alas, so I'll do what I can to time the patches such that at least one of them has the time in a reasonable time frame... > > So, my new plan is to rebase what changes I can to the tip of master an= d > > submit those for review. I'll work with the developers on the FreeBSD > side > > to ensure they are included in reviews in addition to the normal > qemu-devel > > list. This will allow us to pare down the deltas between our code and > > upstream to allow us to make progress. The changes will be held to the > > standard 'makes things better'. Given how broken bsd-user is today in > qemu > > upstream, at first that will a very easy standard to make. > > > > The first patch I'll submit will be changing MAINTAINERS to point to me= , > > since I'm acting as the point person in this effort. I'll then re-submi= t > > some other changes that I've submitted in the past, but CC the FreeBSD > > folks that are currently active (they were only CC'd to former develope= rs > > who lack the time to review). > > > But before I get too far down this path, I thought I'd send out what's > > going on to qemu-devel so I can get feedback and adjust the plan into > > something that's mutually agreeable so time I put towards this is not > > wasted. > > No objections from me. Since current bsd-user is orphaned, largely > unusable, and you're volunteering your time to make it better, I'm > supportive of whatever you believe is the most time efficient way > to improve bsd-user. > > I presume some of the current QEMU maintainers knowledgable about > linux-user will be able to review the patches, and as mentioned > above, if other BSD devs currently active in bsd-user work can > also provide reviews on qemu-devel that'll be useful long term. > Yes. Many of the patches are copied from there, as well as the initial version coming largely from there as well (it seems, I wasn't around at the time and base this entirely on code similarities). The FreeBSD project makes such heavy use of this, that I really want to find some way we can stay current and maybe even have better abstractions that make all user-mode emulation easier... Warner --000000000000478cc305b8a92e9c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 6:27 AM Danie= l P. Berrang=C3=A9 <berrange@redh= at.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 08, 2021 at 12:41:30PM -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> The FreeBSD project has rewritten bsd-user. We've been working on = this for
> quite some time (the earliest commits date from 2013). Maybe a dozen p= eople
> have worked on this over time, and there's 3 or 4 active developer= s focused
> on FreeBSD changes at the moment.

The fact that you have 3-4 people involved in this work is will be very
helpful to you going forward with a QEMU maintenance.

The biggest problem with getting code merged into QEMU is an insufficient number of reviewers for the amount of patches sent. Since we have a rule that patches need a review from someone else who isn't the author, if t= here
are two people with expertize to review patches in a given QEMU subsystem,<= br> then they can become self-sufficient and review each others patches on
qemu-devel, which then makes merging much more productive.
=

Yes. That's my hope too. We've been doing this = internally for changes we've been landing lately, so I think expanding = our process to also do this with qemu upstream will be a natural progressio= n...
=C2=A0
> So, my new plan is to rebase what changes I can to the tip of master a= nd
> submit those for review. I'll work with the developers on the Free= BSD side
> to ensure they are included in reviews in addition to the normal qemu-= devel
> list. This will allow us to pare down the deltas between our code and<= br> > upstream to allow us to make progress. The changes will be held to the=
> standard 'makes things better'. Given how broken bsd-user is t= oday in qemu
> upstream, at first that will a very easy standard to make.
>
> The first patch I'll submit will be changing MAINTAINERS to point = to me,
> since I'm acting as the point person in this effort. I'll then= re-submit
> some other changes that I've submitted in the past, but CC the Fre= eBSD
> folks that are currently active (they were only CC'd to former dev= elopers
> who lack the time to review).

> But before I get too far down this path, I thought I'd send out wh= at's
> going on to qemu-devel so I can get feedback and adjust the plan into<= br> > something that's mutually agreeable so time I put towards this is = not
> wasted.

No objections from me. Since current bsd-user is orphaned, largely
unusable, and you're volunteering your time to make it better, I'm<= br> supportive of whatever you believe is the most time efficient way
to improve bsd-user.

I presume some of the current QEMU maintainers knowledgable about
linux-user will be able to review the patches, and as mentioned
above, if other BSD devs currently active in bsd-user work can
also provide reviews on qemu-devel that'll be useful long term.

Yes. Many of the patches are copied from there= , as well as the initial version coming largely from there as well (it seem= s, I wasn't around at the time and base this entirely on code similarit= ies).

The FreeBSD project makes such heavy use of = this, that I really want to find some way we can stay current and maybe eve= n have better abstractions that make all user-mode emulation easier...

Warner=C2=A0
--000000000000478cc305b8a92e9c--