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Fri, 17 Sep 2021 12:02:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <119693ac-5aed-969a-9d8f-252db75a2d98@amsat.org> In-Reply-To: <119693ac-5aed-969a-9d8f-252db75a2d98@amsat.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:02:25 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Rust in Qemu BoF followup: Rust vs. qemu platform support To: =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu=2DDaud=C3=A9?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e647a05cc3593ae" Received-SPF: none client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::a34; envelope-from=wlosh@bsdimp.com; helo=mail-vk1-xa34.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2E_Berrang=C3=A9?= , slp@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, QEMU Developers , Max Reitz , Stefan Hajnoczi , =?UTF-8?B?TWFyYy1BbmRyw6kgTHVyZWF1?= , Paolo Bonzini , David Gibson , =?UTF-8?B?QWxleCBCZW5uw6ll?= , sgarzare@redhat.com Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" --0000000000001e647a05cc3593ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 12:39 PM Philippe Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9 wrote: > On 9/17/21 6:04 PM, Warner Losh wrote:> wrt FreeBSD: > > > > The main focus of the project is on AMD64 (x86_64) and ARM64 (aarc64). > With > > ricsv64 being ascendant as well. i386 and armv7 are fading. ppc64 has > > strong, > > but episodic, interest as well. The rest are bit players. > > > > i386 (i686 really), armv7 and riscv7 are the next tier of interest in > > FreeBSD > > land. i386 is confined to 32-bit VMs with only a few legacy hardware > > deployments > > still kicking. armv7 is more popular on embedded boards, some of which > have > > a need to run qemu. > > What part of QEMU is used there, user-emulation (likely IMO) or > system-emulation (unlikely) or both? > System emulation is typical. User emulation of x86 is the only interesting thing, but that is less complete than other arch. > riscv64 has a rust port that's being upstreamed, but not > > there yet and there's likely interest to run qemu on it for research > > projects. > > riscv64 isn't widely deployed but has a lot of developer interest / > > mindshare. > > sparc64 was removed from FreeBSD 13 and has been irrelevant for years. > > ppc 32 bit has some minor interest. mips has been fading fast and stand= s > > an excellent chance of being removed before FreeBSD 14 (which is > currently > > slated for 2022). PowerPC 64 is hard to talk about... there's interest > > that comes > > and goes, but when it's around, it's quite intense. It's quite likely > > there will > > be interest to run qemu on ppc64 on FreeBSD, but that's much less > certain. > > > > So it all depends on what having rust means for those platforms that > > don't have > > it. Would it be a 'half a loaf' situation where the non-rust bits would > > be buildable > > but cool new drivers written in rust won't be? Or will it be so central > > that rust is > > table stakes to even start a qemu build? To be honest, I'm not sure thi= s > > difference > > would greatly affect the above answer :). > > > > Rust works really well on x86_64 and aarch64 (though there's more often > > a lag > > on the latter of a few weeks). I know of a rust riscv64 port, but that'= s > > just getting > > ready to upstream. No first-hand or second-hand clue on the rest. > > > > FreeBSD tl;dr: x86_64 and aarch64 are must have. i386, armv7 and riscv6= 4 > are > > really nice to have. ppc64 might also be in that list, but that's less > > certain. The rest > > have little to no relevance. > > Thanks for gathering this useful info! > You are welcome. Warner > P.S I've been poking at people to get our QEMU aarch64 CI story in better > > shape than it is today... I'll have to continue to prompt those > > interested... > > > --0000000000001e647a05cc3593ae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 12:39 PM Philippe Mathieu-Daud= =C3=A9 <f4bug@amsat.org> wrote= :
On 9/17/21 6:04 PM, Warner Losh w= rote:> wrt FreeBSD:
>
> The main focus of the project is on AMD64 (x86_64) and ARM64 (aarc64).= With
> ricsv64 being ascendant as well. i386 and armv7 are fading. ppc64 has<= br> > strong,
> but episodic, interest as well. The rest are bit players.
>
> i386 (i686 really), armv7 and riscv7 are the next tier of interest in<= br> > FreeBSD
> land. i386 is confined to 32-bit VMs with only a few legacy hardware > deployments
> still kicking. armv7 is more popular on embedded boards, some of which= have
> a need to run qemu.

What part of QEMU is used there, user-emulation (likely IMO) or
system-emulation (unlikely) or both?

System emulation is typical.=C2=A0 Us= er emulation of x86 is the only interesting thing, but that is less complet= e than other arch.

> riscv64 has a rust port that's being upstreamed, but not
> there yet and there's likely interest to run qemu on it for resear= ch
> projects.
> riscv64 isn't widely deployed but has a lot of developer interest = /
> mindshare.
> sparc64 was removed from FreeBSD 13 and has been irrelevant for years.=
> ppc 32 bit has some minor interest. mips has been fading fast and stan= ds
> an excellent chance of being removed before FreeBSD 14 (which is curre= ntly
> slated for 2022). PowerPC 64 is hard to talk about... there's inte= rest
> that comes
> and goes, but when it's around, it's quite intense. It's q= uite likely
> there will
> be interest to run qemu on ppc64 on FreeBSD, but that's much less = certain.
>
> So it all depends on what having rust means for those platforms that > don't have
> it. Would it be a 'half a loaf' situation where the non-rust b= its would
> be buildable
> but cool new drivers written in rust won't be? Or will it be so ce= ntral
> that rust is
> table stakes to even start a qemu build? To be honest, I'm not sur= e this
> difference
> would greatly affect the above answer :).
>
> Rust works really well on x86_64 and aarch64 (though there's more = often
> a lag
> on the latter of a few weeks). I know of a rust riscv64 port, but that= 's
> just getting
> ready to upstream. No first-hand or second-hand clue on the rest.
>
> FreeBSD tl;dr: x86_64 and aarch64 are must have. i386, armv7 and riscv= 64 are
> really nice to have. ppc64 might also be in that list, but that's = less
> certain. The rest
> have little to no relevance.

Thanks for gathering this useful info!

You are welcome.=C2=A0

Warner=C2=A0
<= br>
> P.S I've been poking at people to get our QEMU aarch64 CI story in= better
> shape than it is today... I'll have to continue to prompt those > interested...
>
--0000000000001e647a05cc3593ae--