From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5E25C6379F for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:42:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT2rq-0004qz-BI; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:41:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT2ro-0004qM-4S for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:41:44 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pT2rm-0002fP-FK for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:41:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1676648501; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references; bh=hx4301BLyHK+b24mJzOODZV4dRoRaWh2EZvl3smGDcg=; b=jKl72QH2Ntst/iumMmbyX9s9GC80Dd6F03xb5Nu+Yh9AbYrW/CTHcFd52W5xl5dIKXfhkH TQP/APiZQ9hpMo0hD/kCiXtuFZAlBoh89jPexAMq4u/vB8z/epRWSOqKIEVVUtzuZ4W8/Z YLNs8HoPKtUx0s6RGu4ACuV4vWSO1zM= Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast-mx02.redhat.com [66.187.233.88]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-636-AW9fPCBKNEOJO1FG1EgHkA-1; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:41:36 -0500 X-MC-Unique: AW9fPCBKNEOJO1FG1EgHkA-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4674E185A7A4; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:41:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (unknown [10.33.36.98]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B0F64010E83; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:41:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 15:41:31 +0000 From: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= To: Peter Maydell Cc: Thomas Huth , Markus Armbruster , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, John Snow , Cleber Rosa , Philippe =?utf-8?Q?Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9?= , Beraldo Leal , Michael Roth , Wainer dos Santos Moschetta , Paolo Bonzini , qemu-block@nongnu.org, Hanna Reitz , Alex =?utf-8?Q?Benn=C3=A9e?= , Kevin Wolf Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/7] Python: Drop support for Python 3.6 Message-ID: References: <20230210003147.1309376-1-jsnow@redhat.com> <87v8k2ycjb.fsf@pond.sub.org> <87zg9cirti.fsf@pond.sub.org> <331ac041-254e-8db8-33f3-23b36e6a431c@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9 (2022-11-12) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.1 on 10.11.54.1 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=berrange@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 03:37:16PM +0000, Peter Maydell wrote: > On Fri, 17 Feb 2023 at 09:56, Thomas Huth wrote: > > > > On 17/02/2023 10.06, Markus Armbruster wrote: > > > Thomas Huth writes: > > ... > > > My view on all this is a bit more pragmatic. > > > > > > For a human developer, the difference between "dnf install > > > python-sphinx" and "pip install sphinx" is, in my opinion, close to > > > negligible. Really no comparison to "git-clone GCC and bootstap it". > > > You seem to disagree with that. > > > > Honestly, being a Python ignorant, I completely messed up my system with > > "pip" already a couple of times, especially if the instructions forgot to > > tell me to use the "--user" switch. So yes, I tend to disagree ;-) > > Seconded. I trust my distro package manager and I know how it works, > and I know how to uninstall a package later if I want to revert what > I've done. I do not know or trust what the heck pip is doing or where it's > trying to install anything, because it's not a tool I habitually > use. I can't remember if I've managed to mess up the system with it, > but I've definitely had the experience of "install stuff with pip, > do a distro upgrade later, the pip installed stuff is all busted". > > > > For automated builds in general, and distro packaging in particular, the > > > difference is real, and could even be a show stopper. But who's > > > packaging bleeding edge QEMU on CentOS 8? I suspect the only automated > > > builds are our own CI, where the difference is real, but hardly a show > > > stopper. > > > > If we've got the feeling that nobody out there really builds QEMU on older > > long-term distros anymore, then why the heck are we still trying to support > > this according to our support statement? > > I don't think anybody is *packaging* new QEMU on an old distro. I recall that at one time the openvz folks where packaging new QEMU on RHEL-7 for a while after we had already dropped RHEL-7 as a target. That's the trouble with enterprise distros, their usage sticks around way longer than any of us would care to admit. > I do think we have users who do ad-hoc from-source builds. We'll certainly have contributors using it as a dev platform from the corporate world. With regards, Daniel -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|