From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E630C433FE for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvQ2X-00059o-Of for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 15:29:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41010) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvQ1e-0004Sr-56 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 15:28:22 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]:29709) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvQ1b-0005iF-Ey for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 15:28:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1639081698; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=A5PiyoFm3Pe2YsGUClI92aeTooKbhnpiAtwFQfnHpwo=; b=it4SY8PvCYECGay21fZLLR3/w1JJ22j+rGaAVJn0YDoXtqBuBtlhcLsIYoLNg1Qug07bYJ 4ajFyeyfy56CzzGBo8BwtTpClUQTUCEipoL+tfuGNHMaZkY9YFJEhfXJIJTcN86athwj8a E2CsQcZdSx6pCs4Jlzr9TLcqij6NKwE= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-464-0WagGa9jP6WZaHxm6HJKXw-1; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 15:28:09 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 0WagGa9jP6WZaHxm6HJKXw-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36CC710144E2; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:28:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (unknown [10.39.194.55]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29EA05E24E; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:28:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:28:03 +0000 From: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= To: Mark Burton Subject: Re: Redesign of QEMU startup & initial configuration Message-ID: References: <87lf13cx3x.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.1.3 (2021-09-10) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=berrange@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=berrange@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -33 X-Spam_score: -3.4 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.618, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= Cc: Damien Hedde , "Edgar E. Iglesias" , Markus Armbruster , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org Developers" , Mirela Grujic , =?utf-8?Q?Marc-Andr=C3=A9?= Lureau , Paolo Bonzini Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 09:01:24PM +0100, Mark Burton wrote: > I’ll take the liberty to cut one part (I agree with much of what you say elsewhere) > > > On 9 Dec 2021, at 20:11, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > > > > As illustrated earlier, I'd really like us to consider being a bit > > more adventurous on the CLI side. I'm convinced that a CLI for > > directly configurable hardware is doomed to be horrible no matter > > what, if you try to directly expose all QAPI configuration > > flexibilty. Whether key/value, JSON, whatever, it will become > > unmanagable on the CLI because VM hardware config is inherantly > > complicated. > > > > I absolutely agree, but reach a slightly different conclusion > > > Thus my though that config files or QMP should be the only two > > places where the full power of QAPI config is exposed. Use CLI > > as just a way to interact with config files in a simple way > > with templates. > > I would countenance that we choose only one place to ‘support’ an interface. Either “Yet Another Hardware Configuration Language” or QAPI. Rather than re-inventing that wheel I would simply suggest that we leave that to the relevant ‘user’ community (libvirt, whatever), who have specific requirements and/or existing solutions. Leaving QEMU itself to focus on improving QAPI (and migrating the CLI). Yes, indeed, the logical extension of my idea is that the 'simple' CLI + templating thing doesn't atually have to be in the main QEMU binary at all. We could in fact ship a bare '/usr/bin/qemu' which does the config file templating and spawns whatever full QEMU binary (/usr/bin/qemu-system-blah) does the real VM. The key is just that we have something simple for users, who don't want a full mgmt layer and like the historical QEMU simple configs. Regards, Daniel -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|