From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A75FC00140 for ; Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:36:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34202 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oJsok-0000N5-A0 for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2022 04:36:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36670) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oJsdo-00088J-KY for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2022 04:25:08 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]:55142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oJsdl-00066h-9W for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 05 Aug 2022 04:25:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1659687904; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references; bh=IYogsoNxZVzUKFX/TnSFhS5/WD2o+9j5hOiKkHnboZw=; b=DCRo/wmS4g3/ZuEhF/Y/fgq6jC/jzlCV0bjlNnkNTa6/QOO46/kN3Q0Q5F8uypjgIWS335 DfoTf9mMEaly1Ai2YfsMLUIY/a67K64xGIy7tQZj809jFuUC4doKMSETdumykQcKXIiwoL i91+cq5f4654SJD8nRPaa+rTWC6YxTc= Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mx3-rdu2.redhat.com [66.187.233.73]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-380-jsf3lRrcNGi4HoS76at2kQ-1; Fri, 05 Aug 2022 04:25:02 -0400 X-MC-Unique: jsf3lRrcNGi4HoS76at2kQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 483C92812C34; Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:25:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (unknown [10.39.194.117]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DBD32166B26; Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 09:24:56 +0100 From: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= To: Thomas Huth Cc: "Zhang, Chen" , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" , "stefanha@gmail.com" , "jasowang@redhat.com" , Jagannathan Raman , John G Johnson , Elena Ufimtseva , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Xie Yongji Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/1] Update vfio-user module to the latest Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.6 (2022-06-05) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.6 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=berrange@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.082, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 09:21:07AM +0200, Thomas Huth wrote: > On 02/08/2022 12.00, Zhang, Chen wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Qemu-devel > > bounces+chen.zhang=intel.com@nongnu.org> On Behalf Of Jagannathan > > > Raman > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 9:24 AM > > > To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org > > > Cc: stefanha@gmail.com; berrange@redhat.com > > > Subject: [PATCH 0/1] Update vfio-user module to the latest > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > This patch updates the libvfio-user submodule to the latest. > > > > Just a rough idea, why not depends on linux distribution for the libvfio-user.so? > > It looks no libvfio-user packet in distribution's repo. > > > > Hi Thomas/Daniel: > > > > For the RFC QEMU user space eBPF support, > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20220617073630.535914-6-chen.zhang@intel.com/T/ > > Maybe introduce the libubpf.so as a subproject like libvfio-user.so is more appropriate? > > Fair comment. I never noticed them before, but why do we have those > submodules in the subprojects/ folder (libvduse, libvfio-user and > libvhost-user)? ... I don't think it's the job of QEMU to ship libraries > that a user might want to use for a certain feature, so could we please > remove those submodules again? If someone wants to use this, they can > compile the libraries on their own or help their favorite distribution to > ship them as packages. FWIW, I don't really agree with shipping libvfio-user.so as a submodule either, but the consensus was that we have to do it because there's no stable ABI committed to by libvfio-user maintainers yet. My counterpoint is that as long as QEMU ships libvfio-user as a submodule, there's no incentive to create a stable ABI, leaving a chicken & egg scenario. IOW personally I'd rather libvfio-user.so was put into the distros right now, and have the pain ABI incompatible releases act as motivation for the creation of a stable ABI. A second factor is that as long as it is a submodule, there is little pressure for the distros to actually package the library, which leaves us in a place where someone will always object to removing the submodule from QEMU because it doesn't exist in distro X. So again my preference is to not add any library as a submodule. Lets the distros handle dependancies like they always have. If we do add something as a submodule for some reason, I'd like us to say upfront that this is for a fixed time period (ie maximum of 3 releases aka 1 year) only after which we'll remove it no matter what. We are where we are with libvfio-user.so, and I don't think that is something to be used as justification for adding more libraries as submodules. Rather we should set a timeframe to remove libvfio-user submodule to put distros on notice. With regards, Daniel -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|