From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A0C0C36002 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 18:08:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1twmDK-0000h5-OB; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:07:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1twmDH-0000gP-Gd for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:07:51 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.129.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1twmDE-0003gT-2A for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:07:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1742839666; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=a51ms7O83SzoPgubYhDd4g2qO19tTqiDbLXVUkVMwj4=; b=KS8kO2dQTXXJVzKi+uCVj2x0qlUWYJObQmjKQqZ9rhI3JlLfSEUwTuRrICG62jYLuO5q4a VgojKnrSMDEjlOiBdLHf1lSClpOboqMKUt+zuFlVo4LQIp1bYq9rTDNfG1/ph1vtMv8ICj QjwP5HpDhyxaY3xksDpgHiXbfDBerKI= Received: from mx-prod-mc-08.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (ec2-35-165-154-97.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com [35.165.154.97]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-641-PjT4FBAjPBaOrXdV_T0hoA-1; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 14:07:42 -0400 X-MC-Unique: PjT4FBAjPBaOrXdV_T0hoA-1 X-Mimecast-MFC-AGG-ID: PjT4FBAjPBaOrXdV_T0hoA_1742839660 Received: from mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com [10.30.177.12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx-prod-mc-08.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE12F180AF4E; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 18:07:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from redhat.com (unknown [10.42.28.56]) by mx-prod-int-03.mail-002.prod.us-west-2.aws.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35CC419541A5; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 18:07:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 18:07:30 +0000 From: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= To: Gerd Hoffman Cc: Alexander Graf , Ani Sinha , =?utf-8?B?SsO2cmcgUsO2ZGVs?= , Paolo Bonzini , Eduardo Habkost , Marcel Apfelbaum , Philippe =?utf-8?Q?Mathieu-Daud=C3=A9?= , Yanan Wang , Zhao Liu , Richard Henderson , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Fabiano Rosas , Laurent Vivier , Igor Mammedov , Vitaly Kuznetsov , qemu-devel Subject: Re: [PATCH v6] hw/misc/vmfwupdate: Introduce hypervisor fw-cfg interface support Message-ID: References: <4593a2fe-098b-488b-9d55-1adc1e970f59@amazon.com> <4p7orqixni5m3444l53isxe5awdwasrb5e5bu6wu4phhycqpir@z22wgnaxowsg> <53jhridwtejsuy4qojjr66rcjdebnyarwke4bs3m3w2afmqhe6@pab5zfyo46fx> <4f6a21a9-746e-45ac-88c7-dc0204480a86@amazon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13 (2024-03-09) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 3.0 on 10.30.177.12 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.129.124; envelope-from=berrange@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Daniel =?utf-8?B?UC4gQmVycmFuZ8Op?= Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 06:53:59PM +0100, Gerd Hoffman wrote: > On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 05:31:30PM +0100, Alexander Graf wrote: > > > > > > > > What does all this mean for the hypervisor interface ? > > > > > > That means we'll go scratch the region list idea and depend on igvm > > > > > instead. > > > > > > Which means we are back to the single firmware image. > > > > So in this model, how are we passing the hashes of kernel, initrd and cmdline? > > > > Are they going to be part of the firmware image as was previously thought? > > > > Either scratch the idea of using hashes to verify kernel + initrd + > > > cmdline and use a secure boot signed UKI instead, or use IGVM firmware > > > images and add the kernel hashes page to the igvm. > > > It's a nice idea to have a firmware IGVM file that contains a signature, so > > you can for example have a RHEL provided IGVM that only runs UKIs that are > > signed by Red Hat. > > Yep, that is what should be possible when all this is ready. > > >   - Attestable Bootable Containers. In that case, the command line contains > > a hash of the target fs-verity protected partition. Red Hat can not be the > > entity signing that UKI. It must be the user. > > Well, add-ons have been created to address exactly that: Allow the UKI > being configured without changing it, so the UKI can be signed by redhat. > You'll go add user-signed add-on for the command line. > > >   - Add-ons. How do you provide a "debug add-on" and prevent it to gain any > > access to confidential data? > > Not sure I understand the point you are trying to raise. Add-ons > signatures are checked too. "Debug add-on" is quite a broad concept - some things might be safe for the vendor to ship as pre-built signed add-ons by default, others things may not be safe & require user opt-in, by signing an add-on locally with their MOK and enrolling with it shim. Also UKIs semi-recently gained support for multiple profiles avoiding the need for addons in some cases[1]. A simple use of this might be two cmdlines - one quiet by default and one with verbose kernel messages. A more advanced use would be one "normal" profile, and one "factory reset" profile With regards, Daniel [1] https://github.com/uapi-group/specifications/blob/main/specs/unified_kernel_image.md#multi-profile-ukis -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|