From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BED6C4727C for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 15:11:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E44720897 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 15:11:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="OX4DA2M4" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 2E44720897 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:42074 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kO0FN-00020W-67 for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:11:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48480) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kO08h-0001fs-F3 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:04:59 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([216.205.24.124]:47793) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kO08e-0005fv-Bu for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:04:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1601564695; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=SCQUZl2S+lveCaCCrAob2GlsoNWmoFSFf02KJUGAzHE=; b=OX4DA2M4VqNnYVQkl1he+d0gb8jTHRqn1VCf8QqqANd6XsLYns6RXwhOpQiL2y1buXry1c Iqjga40Bol06tLwxE2zIGqfgp3BCXBY4NAVgOASzB8kAKubmpEhbPTPPsspLGpVvoc/aCC MTHNkcDY3rU0obq0k4v82ojigcSd48k= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-593-fIfPxOCZPnmsQXivF31mgQ-1; Thu, 01 Oct 2020 11:04:53 -0400 X-MC-Unique: fIfPxOCZPnmsQXivF31mgQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx08.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B95A78030CD; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 15:04:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thuth.remote.csb (ovpn-112-107.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.112.107]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1915119C78; Thu, 1 Oct 2020 15:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Use of "?" for help has been deprecated for 8 years, can we drop it? To: Kevin Wolf , Eric Blake References: <87k0wa1bf8.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <54b77382-78c8-e6bf-45d4-616595baa87f@redhat.com> <20201001131714.GC6673@linux.fritz.box> From: Thomas Huth Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 17:04:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20201001131714.GC6673@linux.fritz.box> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.23 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=thuth@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.205.24.124; envelope-from=thuth@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/01 04:25:37 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= , Markus Armbruster , qemu-devel@nongnu.org Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 01/10/2020 15.17, Kevin Wolf wrote: > Am 01.10.2020 um 15:06 hat Eric Blake geschrieben: >> On 10/1/20 5:35 AM, Markus Armbruster wrote: >>> We deprecated "?" more than eight years ago. We didn't have a >>> deprecation process back then, but we did purge "?" from the >>> documentation and from help texts. Can we finally drop it? >>> >>> I'm asking because there is a patch on the list that bypasses >>> is_help_option() to not add deprecated "?" to a new place: "[PATCH v2 >>> 1/4] keyval: Parse help options". >>> >> >> Did we ever issue a warning when it was used? It's easier to argue that >> it can be dropped if users had notice of some form or another. That >> said, I'm not heartbroken if we yank it immediately instead of letting >> it live for 2 more releases. > > A deprecation warning for a help option would somehow feel strange. > > I would consider this a human-only interface that can be changed at > will, like HMP syntax. I'm not so sure ... for example we use "-device help" in the qemu-iotest scripts, so other people out there might use "-device ?" in their scripts, too, to check for the availability of devices... so IMHO we should follow the deprecation process properly here. Thomas