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Tsirkin" References: <20200527041212.12700.60627.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <20200527041414.12700.50293.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <4f37c184-cf62-5711-a737-925533b52d73@redhat.com> <20200618120121-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <1ee4f06d-f0bb-4155-ee82-1d56c346e2a0@redhat.com> <20200624103559-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABtCREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT6JAlgEEwEIAEICGwMFCQlmAYAGCwkIBwMCBhUI AgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl3pImkCGQEACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1o+VA//SFvIHUAvul05u6wKv/pIR6aICPdpF9EIgEU448g+7FfDgQwcEny1pbEzAmiw zAXIQ9H0NZh96lcq+yDLtONnXk/bEYWHHUA014A1wqcYNRY8RvY1+eVHb0uu0KYQoXkzvu+s Dncuguk470XPnscL27hs8PgOP6QjG4jt75K2LfZ0eAqTOUCZTJxA8A7E9+XTYuU0hs7QVrWJ jQdFxQbRMrYz7uP8KmTK9/Cnvqehgl4EzyRaZppshruKMeyheBgvgJd5On1wWq4ZUV5PFM4x II3QbD3EJfWbaJMR55jI9dMFa+vK7MFz3rhWOkEx/QR959lfdRSTXdxs8V3zDvChcmRVGN8U Vo93d1YNtWnA9w6oCW1dnDZ4kgQZZSBIjp6iHcA08apzh7DPi08jL7M9UQByeYGr8KuR4i6e RZI6xhlZerUScVzn35ONwOC91VdYiQgjemiVLq1WDDZ3B7DIzUZ4RQTOaIWdtXBWb8zWakt/ ztGhsx0e39Gvt3391O1PgcA7ilhvqrBPemJrlb9xSPPRbaNAW39P8ws/UJnzSJqnHMVxbRZC Am4add/SM+OCP0w3xYss1jy9T+XdZa0lhUvJfLy7tNcjVG/sxkBXOaSC24MFPuwnoC9WvCVQ ZBxouph3kqc4Dt5X1EeXVLeba+466P1fe1rC8MbcwDkoUo65Ag0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAGJAiUEGAECAA8FAlXLn5ECGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1qA6w/+M+ggFv+JdVsz5+ZIc6MSyGUozASX+bmIuPeIecc9UsFRatc91LuJCKMkD9Uv GOcWSeFpLrSGRQ1Z7EMzFVU//qVs6uzhsNk0RYMyS0B6oloW3FpyQ+zOVylFWQCzoyyf227y GW8HnXunJSC+4PtlL2AY4yZjAVAPLK2l6mhgClVXTQ/S7cBoTQKP+jvVJOoYkpnFxWE9pn4t H5QIFk7Ip8TKr5k3fXVWk4lnUi9MTF/5L/mWqdyIO1s7cjharQCstfWCzWrVeVctpVoDfJWp 4LwTuQ5yEM2KcPeElLg5fR7WB2zH97oI6/Ko2DlovmfQqXh9xWozQt0iGy5tWzh6I0JrlcxJ ileZWLccC4XKD1037Hy2FLAjzfoWgwBLA6ULu0exOOdIa58H4PsXtkFPrUF980EEibUp0zFz GotRVekFAceUaRvAj7dh76cToeZkfsjAvBVb4COXuhgX6N4pofgNkW2AtgYu1nUsPAo+NftU CxrhjHtLn4QEBpkbErnXQyMjHpIatlYGutVMS91XTQXYydCh5crMPs7hYVsvnmGHIaB9ZMfB njnuI31KBiLUks+paRkHQlFcgS2N3gkRBzH7xSZ+t7Re3jvXdXEzKBbQ+dC3lpJB0wPnyMcX FOTT3aZT7IgePkt5iC/BKBk3hqKteTnJFeVIT7EC+a6YUFg= Organization: Red Hat GmbH Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:28:59 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200624103559-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=207.211.31.120; envelope-from=david@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/24 02:33:25 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Alexander Duyck Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" > So at the high level the idea was simple, we just clear the dirty bit > when page is hinted, unless we sent a new command since. Implementation > was reviewed by migration maintainers. If there's a consensus the code > is written so badly we can't maintain it, maybe we should remove it. > Which parts are unmaintainable in your eyes - migration or virtio ones? QEMU implementation without a propert virtio specification. I hope that we can *at least* finally document the expected behavior. Alex gave it a shot, and I was hoping that Wei could jump in to clarify, help move this forward ... after all he implemented (+designed?) the feature and the virtio interface. > Or maybe it's the general thing that interface was never specced > properly. Yes, a spec would be definitely a good starter ... [...] >> >> 1. If migration fails during RAM precopy, the guest will never receive a >> DONE notification. Probably easy to fix. >> >> 2. Unclear semantics. Alex tried to document what the actual semantics >> of hinted pages are. > > I'll reply to that now. > >> Assume the following in the guest to a previously >> hinted page >> >> /* page was hinted and is reused now */ >> if (page[x] != Y) >> page[x] == Y; >> /* migration ends, we now run on the destination */ >> BUG_ON(page[x] != Y); >> /* BUG, because the content chan > > The assumption hinting makes is that data in page is writtent to before it's used. > > >> A guest can observe that. And that could be a random driver that just >> allocated a page. >> >> (I *assume* in Linux we might catch that using kasan, but I am not 100% >> sure, also, the actual semantics to document are unclear - e.g., for >> other guests) > > I think it's basically simple: hinting means it's ok to > fill page with trash unless it has been modified since the command > ID supplied. Yeah, I quite dislike the semantics, especially, as they are different to well-know semantics as e.g., represent in MADV_FREE. Getting changed content when reading is really weird. But it seemed to be easier to implement (low hanging fruit) and nobody complained back then. Well, now we are stuck with it. [..] > >> There are other concerns I had regarding the iothread (e.g., while >> reporting is active, virtio_ballloon_get_free_page_hints() is >> essentially a busy loop, in contrast to documented - >> continue_to_get_hints will always be true). > > So that would be a performance issue you are suggesting, right? I misread the code, so that comment does no longer apply (see other message). > >>> The appeal of hinting is that it's 0 overhead outside migration, >>> and pains were taken to avoid keeping pages locked while >>> hypervisor is busy. >>> >>> If we are to drop hinting completely we need to show that reporting >>> can be comparable, and we'll probably want to add a mode for >>> reporting that behaves somewhat similarly. >> >> Depends on the actual users. If we're dropping a feature that nobody is >> actively using, I don't think we have to show anything. > > > I don't know how to find out. So far it doesn't look like we found > any common data corruptions that would indicate no one can use it safely. > Races around reset aren't all that uncommon but I don't think that > qualifies as a deal breaker. As I said, there are no libvirt bindings, so at least anything using libvirt does not use it. I'd be curious about actual users. > > I find the idea of asynchronously sending hints to host without > waiting for them to be processed intriguing. Not something > I'd work on implementing if we had reporting originally, > but since it's there I'm not sure we should just discard it > at this point. > >> This feature obviously saw no proper review. > > I did my best but obviously missed some things. Yeah, definitely not your fault. People cannot expect maintainers to review everything in detail. -- Thanks, David / dhildenb