From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B06BC3DA49 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2024 12:52:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sXKQT-0005eB-Do; Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:52:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sXKQF-00053x-A5 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:51:49 -0400 Received: from casper.infradead.org ([2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sXKQC-0002n8-F7 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:51:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=tjB9sahF1Q6R+ThCQodR/T2qEkko1i0CtFwwAWcoTuQ=; b=cWcRxMZK8xPhMlJMQEsz/79lpt 6yGCt4K0u+qQiAD6bbaEyp74jDqIAuWzgrpy9oMjMhzr80+1kFPgBsVAlUsS5SGKeNaeL/TigRbsa ikNfDyDfb/CtcTjqwKPxlLepb0+B3fpl8BoJ1kn0g6Ve6UydCtPAJgVvvfjipTLZ0DfZMdg5EC7ne ApOx9ADaZH4tzXA37+EOjWZsKKL+KxRofvwzpsca/JS3PD4Wq1Hc1E3WCBZ2Jy7I8ZDpW/uTzUHe0 xOy60fnRiMAgYgu98Q1PuG7yNhAXcxMimrR35excVXxieIrH2RjHc8udIOub1hF54qkvPlhMiFhwC 5UgsEvgQ==; Received: from 54-240-197-234.amazon.com ([54.240.197.234] helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.97.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1sXKPx-0000000ADou-0SuK; Fri, 26 Jul 2024 12:51:30 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] ptp: Add vDSO-style vmclock support From: David Woodhouse To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Richard Cochran , Peter Hilber , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux.dev, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-rtc@vger.kernel.org, "Ridoux, Julien" , virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev, "Luu, Ryan" , "Chashper, David" , "Mohamed Abuelfotoh, Hazem" , "Christopher S . Hall" , Jason Wang , John Stultz , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Stephen Boyd , Thomas Gleixner , Xuan Zhuo , Marc Zyngier , Mark Rutland , Daniel Lezcano , Alessandro Zummo , Alexandre Belloni , qemu-devel , Simon Horman Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 13:51:26 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20240726084424-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <2a27205bfc61e19355d360f428a98e2338ff68c3.camel@infradead.org> <20240725122603-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <0959390cad71b451dc19e5f9396d3f4fdb8fd46f.camel@infradead.org> <20240725163843-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20240725170328-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20240726010511-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20240726012933-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20240726084424-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-rMtCewQX0Q33Y+LHPCQZ" User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4-0ubuntu2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Received-SPF: none client-ip=2001:8b0:10b:1236::1; envelope-from=BATV+6e6729790a346b8d8b38+7642+infradead.org+dwmw2@casper.srs.infradead.org; helo=casper.infradead.org X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org --=-rMtCewQX0Q33Y+LHPCQZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2024-07-26 at 08:47 -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 09:06:29AM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote: > > That's great. You don't even need it to be per-vCPU if you let the > > hypervisor write directly to the single physical location that's mapped > > to userspace. It can do that before it even starts *running* the vCPUs > > after migration. It's a whole lot simpler.=20 >=20 > It *seems* simpler, until you realize that there is no way > to change anything in the interface, there is no negotiation > between hypervisor and userspace. If I learned anything at all > in tens of years working on software, it's that it is > never done. So let's have userspace talk to the kernel > and have kernel talk to the devices, please. There's > no compelling reason to have this bypass here. Thanks for the useful feedback. As you see, I've incorporated most of it into the v2 post a few minutes ago. On this particular topic we disagree. I absolutely don't want to take dependencies on kernel code, on virtio, or on the cross-platform assumption (even if it's true) that a device can raise an interrupt and guarantee that no userspace code will run before that interrupt is handled. Using virtio does allow for some negotiation =E2=80=94 for handling differe= nces in page sizes, and enabling the timekeeping only on demand. That's great, but the structure is still an ABI in its own right, and we know how to do those. 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