From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E78CFC3DA42 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:17:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sTzqV-0006aA-10; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 04:17:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sTzqQ-0006Y8-36 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 04:17:02 -0400 Received: from casper.infradead.org ([2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sTzqN-0007Uu-5X for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 04:17:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=Ubxr2HkffdDfbaVcxMhcSzsYcYW5gclo6c8pnhBSBTo=; b=s4H2zIykYAdHu2e12j8bWR+lA+ bFe0KKcSZ5gayA4MRqNRYIvLkSl0l5Nt7sBnGBoHWdcJOIwwfwqN0NMO3aUjPMjLYTqB8x1/3rgGq DrgMtgj3KCYLTvVnAVQWVaXoqd54sHyl+ugb8MKZJcjEXXkBYk/yO2lEepUmyjOKI4idGn/68Bz2p 9mQ9s4K2ijqTBdI6aaddI0GomF/uOf5t+Ol7d6dbKmpE25H+w0Jcraz0Vt9p1kN98bopYHtix8La1 wMWqOJeGCmbR1a6/j2RF0xVtQbm5zT3Z3QIyhMsbt0806F+AmqlIme13FQWolG4PnwlvUFsjE3pFM PwQZLKmA==; Received: from 54-240-197-225.amazon.com ([54.240.197.225] helo=freeip.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.97.1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1sTzqD-00000000ZPB-0hAP; Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v4] ptp: Add vDSO-style vmclock support From: David Woodhouse To: Peter Hilber , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux.dev, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-rtc@vger.kernel.org, "Ridoux, Julien" , virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev, "Luu, Ryan" , "Chashper, David" Cc: "Christopher S . Hall" , Jason Wang , John Stultz , "Michael S . Tsirkin" , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Richard Cochran , Stephen Boyd , Thomas Gleixner , Xuan Zhuo , Marc Zyngier , Mark Rutland , Daniel Lezcano , Alessandro Zummo , Alexandre Belloni , qemu-devel , Simon Horman Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 09:16:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <10db46e9-b753-43bb-a826-14d4c11026bd@opensynergy.com> References: <20240708092924.1473461-1-dwmw2@infradead.org> <060f392c-7ba9-4ff6-be82-c64f542abaa1@opensynergy.com> <98b20feebf4e7a11870dca725c03ee4e411b1aa3.camel@infradead.org> <1c24e450-5180-46c2-8892-b10709a881e5@opensynergy.com> <1ca48fb47723ed16f860611ac230ded7a1ca07f1.camel@infradead.org> <9f132922-2bf7-4749-b8c7-4c57445f9cde@opensynergy.com> <10db46e9-b753-43bb-a826-14d4c11026bd@opensynergy.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-Hyh+17g2MeZ+GIA0VPiP" User-Agent: Evolution 3.44.4-0ubuntu2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Received-SPF: none client-ip=2001:8b0:10b:1236::1; envelope-from=BATV+4be170c9d8e2070cfe91+7633+infradead.org+dwmw2@casper.srs.infradead.org; helo=casper.infradead.org X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org --=-Hyh+17g2MeZ+GIA0VPiP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2024-07-16 at 15:20 +0200, Peter Hilber wrote: > On 16.07.24 14:32, David Woodhouse wrote: > > On 16 July 2024 12:54:52 BST, Peter Hilber wrote: > > > On 11.07.24 09:50, David Woodhouse wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2024-07-11 at 09:25 +0200, Peter Hilber wrote: > > > > >=20 > > > > > IMHO this phrasing is better, since it directly refers to the sta= te of the > > > > > structure. > > > >=20 > > > > Thanks. I'll update it. > > > >=20 > > > > > AFAIU if there would be abnormal delays in store buffers, causing= some > > > > > driver to still see the old clock for some time, the monotonicity= could be > > > > > violated: > > > > >=20 > > > > > 1. device writes new, much slower clock to store buffer > > > > > 2. some time passes > > > > > 3. driver reads old, much faster clock > > > > > 4. device writes store buffer to cache > > > > > 5. driver reads new, much slower clock > > > > >=20 > > > > > But I hope such delays do not occur. > > > >=20 > > > > For the case of the hypervisor=E2=86=90=E2=86=92guest interface thi= s should be handled > > > > by the use of memory barriers and the seqcount lock. > > > >=20 > > > > The guest driver reads the seqcount, performs a read memory barrier= , > > > > then reads the contents of the structure. Then performs *another* r= ead > > > > memory barrier, and checks the seqcount hasn't changed: > > > > https://git.infradead.org/?p=3Dusers/dwmw2/linux.git;a=3Dblob;f=3Dd= rivers/ptp/ptp_vmclock.c;hb=3Dvmclock#l351 > > > >=20 > > > > The converse happens with write barriers on the hypervisor side: > > > > https://git.infradead.org/?p=3Dusers/dwmw2/qemu.git;a=3Dblob;f=3Dhw= /acpi/vmclock.c;hb=3Dvmclock#l68 > > >=20 > > > My point is that, looking at the above steps 1. - 5.: > > >=20 > > > 3. read HW counter, smp_rmb, read seqcount > > > 4. store seqcount, smp_wmb, stores, smp_wmb, store seqcount become ef= fective > > > 5. read seqcount, smp_rmb, read HW counter > > >=20 > > > AFAIU this would still be a theoretical problem suggesting the use of > > > stronger barriers. > >=20 > > This seems like a bug on the guest side. The HW counter needs to be rea= d *within* the (paired, matching) seqcount reads, not before or after. > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > There would be paired reads: >=20 > 1. device writes new, much slower clock to store buffer > 2. some time passes > 3. read seqcount, smp_rmb, ..., read HW counter, smp_rmb, read seqcount > 4. store seqcount, smp_wmb, stores, smp_wmb, store seqcount all become > =C2=A0=C2=A0 effective only now > 5. read seqcount, smp_rmb, read HW counter, ..., smp_rmb, read seqcount >=20 > I just omitted the parts which do not necessarily need to happen close to > 4. for the monotonicity to be violated. My point is that 1. could become > visible to other cores long after it happened on the local core (during > 4.). Oh, I see. That would be a bug on the device side then. And as you say, it could be fixed by using the appropriate barriers. Or my alternative of just documenting "Don't Do That Then". --=-Hyh+17g2MeZ+GIA0VPiP Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEkQw ggYQMIID+KADAgECAhBNlCwQ1DvglAnFgS06KwZPMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMIGIMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzETMBEGA1UECBMKTmV3IEplcnNleTEUMBIGA1UEBxMLSmVyc2V5IENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEuMCwGA1UEAxMlVVNFUlRydXN0IFJTQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0 aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0xODExMDIwMDAwMDBaFw0zMDEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGWMQswCQYDVQQG EwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYD VQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50 aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKC AQEAyjztlApB/975Rrno1jvm2pK/KxBOqhq8gr2+JhwpKirSzZxQgT9tlC7zl6hn1fXjSo5MqXUf 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