From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871C7C433DB for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:28:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A9C023B2A for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:28:07 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0A9C023B2A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:57402 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l05Ti-00007g-0h for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:28:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37248) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l05GD-0006qX-Ei for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:14:09 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([216.205.24.124]:39484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l05G9-0006km-S7 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:14:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1610640843; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=a/mlUTbkIjao/JNIGIuuVi6laoMqf08nRBJmrJyx15c=; b=cZ6qIiBfkrHD7CoX/MN7xH50/FS5g+IgGozudL9yBE0u5iec0EBXtFL0uCpQN4egghisA5 jxg6UnMnJblcGlNEQsJG5UAE6tFN1k0c9WHDOSb0OqBdR0QISu2EahLfmQlBsqxl4x6EKJ iMMd3UpVY7qrb7wNX6OZNoy3QLJ7410= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-441-9AwK_uPlPwKqOwIvylK0Kg-1; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:13:59 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 9AwK_uPlPwKqOwIvylK0Kg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4DCF84A5E3; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.10.120.151] (ovpn-120-151.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.120.151]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BBC6F996; Thu, 14 Jan 2021 16:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: minimal "zero conf" build dockerfiles for fedora:latest and alpine:latest To: Andrea Bolognani , Gerd Hoffmann , Paolo Bonzini References: <6a08e9f5-7cd7-c2c8-4b61-5466a4ffb2ec@redhat.com> <20210113100956.xuyvmxayh5xytja3@sirius.home.kraxel.org> <88f80fb6-62ad-77ca-4047-b1c79fd6a006@redhat.com> From: John Snow Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:13:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=jsnow@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.205.24.124; envelope-from=jsnow@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -32 X-Spam_score: -3.3 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.248, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.237, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Alex_Benn=c3=a9e?= , Thomas Huth , =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=c3=a9?= , QEMU Developers Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 1/14/21 6:10 AM, Andrea Bolognani wrote: > On Wed, 2021-01-13 at 13:31 -0500, John Snow wrote: >> On 1/13/21 5:09 AM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: >>>> I don't like Perl really, but there's a chicken-and-egg problem between >>>> detecting Python and using it to print the configure help script. For >>>> configure-time tasks, Perl has the advantage that "#! /usr/bin/env perl" >>>> just works. >>> >>> Assuming perl is actually installed, the world seems to shift to python. >>> On a minimal fedora install python is present but perl is not ... >>> >>> On the other hand git depends on perl, so it is probably pretty hard to >>> find a developer workstation without perl installed, so maybe that >>> doesn't matter much for the time being. >> >> I agree that it doesn't matter much right now, Though I don't always >> have git installed in containers when I am doing builds. It will become >> more common to encounter environments that are missing "obvious" >> dependencies. > > Note that Fedora has a git-core package that doesn't depend on Perl > while still providing more than enough git for something like a CI > build job. > Good to know. Another point against perl necessarily existing. > As a data point, the libvirt project has made it an explicit goal[1] > to remove all usage of Perl in favor of Python. We're not quite there > yet, but at this point there are only a very tiny handful of Perl > scripts remaining in the repository. > > > [1] https://libvirt.org/strategy.html > It's a good long term goal, I think. I'm biased, but: (1) I understand Python very well (2) I find perl difficult to work with. I assume that long-term it will be easier to use Python instead of Perl for most of our precompiler scripts. Based also somewhat on everyone's reaction when someone suggests changes to the checkpatch script, which is "Oh, sure, if YOU write it ..." --js