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Thu, 19 Mar 2020 17:31:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.114.197] (ovpn-114-197.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.114.197]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7BB9CA3; Thu, 19 Mar 2020 17:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 07/18] s390x: protvirt: Inhibit balloon when switching to protected mode To: Halil Pasic References: <20200226122038.61481-1-frankja@linux.ibm.com> <20200226122038.61481-8-frankja@linux.ibm.com> <58a51f40-21c7-5737-4f4c-568fdd2477fa@linux.ibm.com> <20200227132402.67a38047.pasic@linux.ibm.com> <8622efeb-1a4a-338f-d363-53818b00d195@redhat.com> <20200319164050.78a01702.pasic@linux.ibm.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABtCREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT6JAlgEEwEIAEICGwMFCQlmAYAGCwkIBwMCBhUI AgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl3pImkCGQEACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1o+VA//SFvIHUAvul05u6wKv/pIR6aICPdpF9EIgEU448g+7FfDgQwcEny1pbEzAmiw zAXIQ9H0NZh96lcq+yDLtONnXk/bEYWHHUA014A1wqcYNRY8RvY1+eVHb0uu0KYQoXkzvu+s Dncuguk470XPnscL27hs8PgOP6QjG4jt75K2LfZ0eAqTOUCZTJxA8A7E9+XTYuU0hs7QVrWJ jQdFxQbRMrYz7uP8KmTK9/Cnvqehgl4EzyRaZppshruKMeyheBgvgJd5On1wWq4ZUV5PFM4x II3QbD3EJfWbaJMR55jI9dMFa+vK7MFz3rhWOkEx/QR959lfdRSTXdxs8V3zDvChcmRVGN8U Vo93d1YNtWnA9w6oCW1dnDZ4kgQZZSBIjp6iHcA08apzh7DPi08jL7M9UQByeYGr8KuR4i6e RZI6xhlZerUScVzn35ONwOC91VdYiQgjemiVLq1WDDZ3B7DIzUZ4RQTOaIWdtXBWb8zWakt/ ztGhsx0e39Gvt3391O1PgcA7ilhvqrBPemJrlb9xSPPRbaNAW39P8ws/UJnzSJqnHMVxbRZC Am4add/SM+OCP0w3xYss1jy9T+XdZa0lhUvJfLy7tNcjVG/sxkBXOaSC24MFPuwnoC9WvCVQ ZBxouph3kqc4Dt5X1EeXVLeba+466P1fe1rC8MbcwDkoUo65Ag0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAGJAiUEGAECAA8FAlXLn5ECGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1qA6w/+M+ggFv+JdVsz5+ZIc6MSyGUozASX+bmIuPeIecc9UsFRatc91LuJCKMkD9Uv GOcWSeFpLrSGRQ1Z7EMzFVU//qVs6uzhsNk0RYMyS0B6oloW3FpyQ+zOVylFWQCzoyyf227y GW8HnXunJSC+4PtlL2AY4yZjAVAPLK2l6mhgClVXTQ/S7cBoTQKP+jvVJOoYkpnFxWE9pn4t H5QIFk7Ip8TKr5k3fXVWk4lnUi9MTF/5L/mWqdyIO1s7cjharQCstfWCzWrVeVctpVoDfJWp 4LwTuQ5yEM2KcPeElLg5fR7WB2zH97oI6/Ko2DlovmfQqXh9xWozQt0iGy5tWzh6I0JrlcxJ ileZWLccC4XKD1037Hy2FLAjzfoWgwBLA6ULu0exOOdIa58H4PsXtkFPrUF980EEibUp0zFz GotRVekFAceUaRvAj7dh76cToeZkfsjAvBVb4COXuhgX6N4pofgNkW2AtgYu1nUsPAo+NftU CxrhjHtLn4QEBpkbErnXQyMjHpIatlYGutVMS91XTQXYydCh5crMPs7hYVsvnmGHIaB9ZMfB njnuI31KBiLUks+paRkHQlFcgS2N3gkRBzH7xSZ+t7Re3jvXdXEzKBbQ+dC3lpJB0wPnyMcX FOTT3aZT7IgePkt5iC/BKBk3hqKteTnJFeVIT7EC+a6YUFg= Organization: Red Hat GmbH Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2020 18:31:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200319164050.78a01702.pasic@linux.ibm.com> Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 216.205.24.74 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Janosch Frank , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , cohuck@redhat.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, borntraeger@de.ibm.com, qemu-s390x@nongnu.org Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" [...] >> >> I asked this question already to Michael (cc) via a different channel, >> but hare is it again: >> >> Why does the balloon driver not support VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM? It is >> absolutely not clear to me. The introducing commit mentioned that it >> "bypasses DMA". I fail to see that. >> >> At least the communication via the SG mechanism should work perfectly >> fine with an IOMMU enabled. So I assume it boils down to the pages that >> we inflate/deflate not being referenced via IOVA? >=20 > AFAIU the IOVA/GPA stuff is not the problem here. You have said it > yourself, the SG mechanism would work for balloon out of the box, as it > does for the other virtio devices.=20 >=20 > But VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM (aka VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM) not presented > means according to Michael that the device has full access to the entire > guest RAM. If VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM is negotiated this may or may not > be the case. So you say "The virtio specification tells that the device is to present VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM (a.k.a. VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM) when the device "can only access certain memory addresses with said access specified and/or granted by the platform"." So, AFAIU, *any* virtio device (hypervisor side) has to present this flag when PV is enabled. In that regard, your patch makes perfect sense (although I am not sure it's a good idea to overwrite these feature bits - maybe they should be activated on the cmdline permanently instead when PV is to be used? (or enable )). >=20 > The actual problem is that the pages denoted by the buffer transmitted > via the virtqueue are normally not shared pages. I.e. the hypervisor > can not reuse them (what is the point of balloon inflate). To make this > work, the guest would need to share the pages before saying 'host these > are in my balloon, so you can use them'. This is a piece of logic we What exactly would have to be done in the hypervisor to support it? Assume we have to trigger sharing/unsharing - this sounds like a very architecture specific thing? Or is this e.g., doing a map/unmap operation like mapping/unmapping the SG? Right now it sounds to me "we have to do $ARCHSPECIFIC when inflating/deflating in the guest", which feels wrong. > need only if the host/the device does not have full access to the > guest RAM. That is in my opinion why the balloon driver fences > VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM.> Does that make sense? Yeah, I understood the "device has to set VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM" part. Struggling with the "what can the guest driver actually do" part. >=20 >> >> I don't think they have to be IOVA addresses. We're neither reading nor >> writing these pages. We really speak about "physical memory in the >> system" when ballooning. Everything else doesn't really make sense. >> There is no need to map/unmap pages we inflate/deflate AFAIKs. >> >> IMHO, we should not try to piggy-back on VIRTIO_F_IOMMU_PLATFORM here, >> but instead explicitly disable it either in the hypervisor or the guest. >> >=20 > We need a feature bit here. We can say fencing VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM > was a bug, fix that bug, and then invent another 'the guest RAM is > somehow different' feature bit specific to the balloon, and then create > arch hooks in the driver that get active if this feature is negotiated. >=20 > I assumed the fact that the balloon driver fences > VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM is not a bug. >=20 >> I hope someone can clarify what the real issue with an IOMMU and >> ballooning is, because I'll be having the same "issue" with > virtio-mem. >> >=20 > The issue is not with the IOMMU, the issue is with restricted access > to guest RAM. The definition of VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM is such that we > pretty much know what's up when VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM is not > presented, but VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM presented can mean a couple of > things. Understood. --=20 Thanks, David / dhildenb