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Mon, 12 Dec 2022 19:32:47 GMT Received: from smtpav02.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BCF5805C; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 19:32:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtpav02.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E0758070; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 19:32:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [9.47.158.152] (unknown [9.47.158.152]) by smtpav02.dal12v.mail.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 19:32:46 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 14:32:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.1 Subject: Re: [PATCH] tpm: add backend for mssim Content-Language: en-US To: jejb@linux.ibm.com, =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Markus Armbruster References: <4780481659602f92fffacac66e7dca41ad2787c4.camel@linux.ibm.com> <8066be497c4c81827b24a672a550a805e06eec68.camel@linux.ibm.com> <92daee895872aab2047c3768a9c67b1839406568.camel@linux.ibm.com> From: Stefan Berger In-Reply-To: <92daee895872aab2047c3768a9c67b1839406568.camel@linux.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 8QBbIw2-026ZTA961Ka0FiDuo2X5RUaQ X-Proofpoint-GUID: ccsl9f-UID8BhMWWtBQqL_rzCZdy8lha X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.923,Hydra:6.0.545,FMLib:17.11.122.1 definitions=2022-12-12_02,2022-12-12_02,2022-06-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=555 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2210170000 definitions=main-2212120175 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=148.163.156.1; envelope-from=stefanb@linux.ibm.com; helo=mx0a-001b2d01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 12/12/22 14:12, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2022-12-12 at 13:58 -0500, Stefan Berger wrote: >> On 12/12/22 13:48, James Bottomley wrote: >>> On Mon, 2022-12-12 at 11:59 -0500, Stefan Berger wrote: >>>> On 12/12/22 11:38, James Bottomley wrote: > [...] >>>>> the kernel use of the TPM, but I'm trying to fix that.  The >>>>> standard mssim server is too simplistic to do transport layer >>>>> security, but like everything that does this (or rather doesn't >>>>> do this), you can front it with stunnel4. >>>> >>>> And who or what is going to set this up? >>> >>> I'm not sure I understand the question.  Stunnel4 is mostly used to >>> convert unencrypted proxies like imap on 143 or smtp on 25 to the >>> secure version.  Most people who run servers are fairly familiar >>> with using it.  It's what IBM used for encrypted migration >>> initially.  You can run stunnel on both ends, or the qemu side >>> could be built in using the qemu tls-creds way of doing things but >>> anything running the standard MS server would have to front it with >>> stunnel still. >> >> So it's up to libvirt to setup stunnel to support a completely >> different setup than what it has for swtpm already? > > I don't think so, no. Libvirt doesn't usually help with server setup > (witness the complexity of setting up a server side vtpm proxy) so in > the case tls-creds were built in, it would just work if the object is I see, so you are extending the TPM emulator with TLS on the client side so you don't need another tool to setup a TLS connection from the QEMU/client side. Is the server side across the network or on the same host? Either way, what is the latency that this introduces because I would expect that this slows down IMA since the PCR extensions & TPM 2 response now go back and forth across the network? Stefan > specified. The complexity is all on the server side to front it with > stunnel. > > James >