From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B62C433DF for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 16:04:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52C642077D for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 16:04:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="EHDe3O9l" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 52C642077D Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:35510 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jo7sW-0000WF-IT for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:04:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39244) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jo7ps-0005i2-UT for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:01:16 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-2.mimecast.com ([205.139.110.61]:28741 helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jo7po-0006R9-SC for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:01:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1593014471; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=D3nIA8bVpMLv6gNAUhet9eqIVqDjJ/u3rmYnayHWlkI=; b=EHDe3O9ljjgdEMi3bt2pBhCwOrIXGEv6MHPv75fnkIdgBXZ7/6gWceL61FLMWuGn/Q8EQx G4tbfK9ucXoWWJ6RLKP8+gW98s24pW6MDn076VNWq4FKCWcfaFOIKyTAEBJdgC+V2O7W26 dtdEfjS+40YyOWM5cmhP1bdFrgzmg2Y= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-4-rKVgL6K_MJWYaI_Y0Mo0pg-1; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 12:01:09 -0400 X-MC-Unique: rKVgL6K_MJWYaI_Y0Mo0pg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED8A118585A2; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 16:01:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.113.65] (ovpn-113-65.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.113.65]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFB160F8A; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 16:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v25 QEMU 3/3] virtio-balloon: Replace free page hinting references to 'report' with 'hint' To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" References: <20200527041212.12700.60627.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <20200527041414.12700.50293.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <4f37c184-cf62-5711-a737-925533b52d73@redhat.com> <20200618120121-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <1ee4f06d-f0bb-4155-ee82-1d56c346e2a0@redhat.com> <20200624103559-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20200624113417-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABtCREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT6JAlgEEwEIAEICGwMFCQlmAYAGCwkIBwMCBhUI AgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl3pImkCGQEACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1o+VA//SFvIHUAvul05u6wKv/pIR6aICPdpF9EIgEU448g+7FfDgQwcEny1pbEzAmiw zAXIQ9H0NZh96lcq+yDLtONnXk/bEYWHHUA014A1wqcYNRY8RvY1+eVHb0uu0KYQoXkzvu+s Dncuguk470XPnscL27hs8PgOP6QjG4jt75K2LfZ0eAqTOUCZTJxA8A7E9+XTYuU0hs7QVrWJ jQdFxQbRMrYz7uP8KmTK9/Cnvqehgl4EzyRaZppshruKMeyheBgvgJd5On1wWq4ZUV5PFM4x II3QbD3EJfWbaJMR55jI9dMFa+vK7MFz3rhWOkEx/QR959lfdRSTXdxs8V3zDvChcmRVGN8U Vo93d1YNtWnA9w6oCW1dnDZ4kgQZZSBIjp6iHcA08apzh7DPi08jL7M9UQByeYGr8KuR4i6e RZI6xhlZerUScVzn35ONwOC91VdYiQgjemiVLq1WDDZ3B7DIzUZ4RQTOaIWdtXBWb8zWakt/ ztGhsx0e39Gvt3391O1PgcA7ilhvqrBPemJrlb9xSPPRbaNAW39P8ws/UJnzSJqnHMVxbRZC Am4add/SM+OCP0w3xYss1jy9T+XdZa0lhUvJfLy7tNcjVG/sxkBXOaSC24MFPuwnoC9WvCVQ ZBxouph3kqc4Dt5X1EeXVLeba+466P1fe1rC8MbcwDkoUo65Ag0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAGJAiUEGAECAA8FAlXLn5ECGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1qA6w/+M+ggFv+JdVsz5+ZIc6MSyGUozASX+bmIuPeIecc9UsFRatc91LuJCKMkD9Uv GOcWSeFpLrSGRQ1Z7EMzFVU//qVs6uzhsNk0RYMyS0B6oloW3FpyQ+zOVylFWQCzoyyf227y GW8HnXunJSC+4PtlL2AY4yZjAVAPLK2l6mhgClVXTQ/S7cBoTQKP+jvVJOoYkpnFxWE9pn4t H5QIFk7Ip8TKr5k3fXVWk4lnUi9MTF/5L/mWqdyIO1s7cjharQCstfWCzWrVeVctpVoDfJWp 4LwTuQ5yEM2KcPeElLg5fR7WB2zH97oI6/Ko2DlovmfQqXh9xWozQt0iGy5tWzh6I0JrlcxJ ileZWLccC4XKD1037Hy2FLAjzfoWgwBLA6ULu0exOOdIa58H4PsXtkFPrUF980EEibUp0zFz GotRVekFAceUaRvAj7dh76cToeZkfsjAvBVb4COXuhgX6N4pofgNkW2AtgYu1nUsPAo+NftU CxrhjHtLn4QEBpkbErnXQyMjHpIatlYGutVMS91XTQXYydCh5crMPs7hYVsvnmGHIaB9ZMfB njnuI31KBiLUks+paRkHQlFcgS2N3gkRBzH7xSZ+t7Re3jvXdXEzKBbQ+dC3lpJB0wPnyMcX FOTT3aZT7IgePkt5iC/BKBk3hqKteTnJFeVIT7EC+a6YUFg= Organization: Red Hat GmbH Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 18:01:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200624113417-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.12 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.139.110.61; envelope-from=david@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/06/24 00:34:35 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Alexander Duyck Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 24.06.20 17:37, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 05:28:59PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> So at the high level the idea was simple, we just clear the dirty bit >>> when page is hinted, unless we sent a new command since. Implementation >>> was reviewed by migration maintainers. If there's a consensus the code >>> is written so badly we can't maintain it, maybe we should remove it. >>> Which parts are unmaintainable in your eyes - migration or virtio ones? >> >> QEMU implementation without a propert virtio specification. I hope that >> we can *at least* finally document the expected behavior. Alex gave it a >> shot, and I was hoping that Wei could jump in to clarify, help move this >> forward ... after all he implemented (+designed?) the feature and the >> virtio interface. >> >>> Or maybe it's the general thing that interface was never specced >>> properly. >> >> Yes, a spec would be definitely a good starter ... >> >> [...] >> >>>> >>>> 1. If migration fails during RAM precopy, the guest will never receive a >>>> DONE notification. Probably easy to fix. >>>> >>>> 2. Unclear semantics. Alex tried to document what the actual semantics >>>> of hinted pages are. >>> >>> I'll reply to that now. >>> >>>> Assume the following in the guest to a previously >>>> hinted page >>>> >>>> /* page was hinted and is reused now */ >>>> if (page[x] != Y) >>>> page[x] == Y; >>>> /* migration ends, we now run on the destination */ >>>> BUG_ON(page[x] != Y); >>>> /* BUG, because the content chan >>> >>> The assumption hinting makes is that data in page is writtent to before it's used. >>> >>> >>>> A guest can observe that. And that could be a random driver that just >>>> allocated a page. >>>> >>>> (I *assume* in Linux we might catch that using kasan, but I am not 100% >>>> sure, also, the actual semantics to document are unclear - e.g., for >>>> other guests) >>> >>> I think it's basically simple: hinting means it's ok to >>> fill page with trash unless it has been modified since the command >>> ID supplied. >> >> Yeah, I quite dislike the semantics, especially, as they are different >> to well-know semantics as e.g., represent in MADV_FREE. Getting changed >> content when reading is really weird. But it seemed to be easier to >> implement (low hanging fruit) and nobody complained back then. Well, now >> we are stuck with it. >> >> [..] > > The difference with MADV_FREE is > - asynchronous (using cmd id to synchronize) > - zero not guaranteed > > right? *looking into man page*, yes, when reading you either get the old content or zero. (I remember that a re-read also makes the content stable, but looks like you really have to write to a page) We should most probably do what Alex suggested and initialize pages (at least write a single byte) when leaking them from the shrinker in the guest while hinting is active, such that the content is stable for anybody to allocate and reuse a page. -- Thanks, David / dhildenb