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envelope-from=steven.sistare@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 8/13/2024 2:45 PM, Peter Xu wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 11:00:37AM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote: >>>> Note that the old-QEMU contents of all ramblocks must be preserved, just like >>>> in live migration. Live migration copies the contents in the stream. Live update >>>> preserves the contents in place by preserving the memfd. Thus memfd serves >>>> two purposes: preserving old contents, and preserving DMA mapped pinned pages. >>> >>> IMHO the 1st purpose is a fake one. IOW: >>> >>> - Preserving content will be important on large RAM/ROM regions. When >>> it's small, it shouldn't matter a huge deal, IMHO, because this is >>> about "how fast we can migrate / live upgrade'. IOW, this is not a >>> functional requirement. >> >> Regardless of the size of a ROM region, how would it ever be faster to >> migrate ROMs rather that reload them from stable media on the target? >> Furthermore, what mechanism other than migrating the ROM do we have to >> guarantee the contents of the ROM are identical? > > IIRC we need to migrate ROMs in some form because they can be different on > src/dst, e.g., ROM files can upgrade after QEMU upgrades. Here either > putting them onto migration stream, or making that fd-based should work. Agreed. > Frankly I don't solidly know the details on why they can't be different. Any ramblock may change if the contents are read from a file in the QEMU distribution, or if the contents are composed by QEMU code. > My current understanding was that if one device boots with one version of > ROM/firmware, then it's possible the device keep interacting with the ROM > region in some way (in the form of referring addresses in this specific > version of ROM?), so that it may stop working if the ROM content changed. Yes, the guest may continue to read data or execute code from the block. > IOW, if my understanding is correct, new ROM files won't get used after > migration automatically, but it requires one system reset. When a system > reset triggered after VM migrated to destination host, it'll reload device > ROMs with the files specified (which will start to point to the upgraded > version of ROM files), and IIUC that's where the devices will boostrap with > the new ROM / BIOS files. Agreed. >> I have a hard time accepting that ROMs are only migrated for >> performance > > AFAICT, it's never about performance or making it faster when putting ROM > data on wire. Even in this context where Steve wanted to use fd backing > the ROMs, then putting that on wire is still slower than sharing fds. > > Here my previous comment / point was that this should be a small region, so > it shouldn't matter a huge deal for ROMs to migrate either through the wire > or via the fd page cache. I wanted to remove one more dependency that we > may even need the new -alloc-anon parameter as it doesn't sound required > for ROM migrations. Agreed that performance is not the issue. I use memfd for correctness. Also note that my new proposal deletes the alloc-anon parameter. I allocate non-command-line ramblocks unconditionally using memfd_create. - Steve >> and there isn't some aspect of migrating them to ensure the >> contents remain identical, and by that token CPR would also need to >> preserve the contents to provide the same guarantee. Thanks, > > Thanks, >