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Tsirkin" , Eduardo Habkost , Marcel Apfelbaum , Alistair Francis , Daniel Henrique Barboza , Marcelo Tosatti , qemu-riscv@nongnu.org, Weiwei Li , Amit Shah , Yanan Wang , Helge Deller , Palmer Dabbelt , Ani Sinha , Igor Mammedov , Fabiano Rosas , Liu Zhiwei , =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Mathieu--Drif?= , qemu-arm@nongnu.org, =?UTF-8?Q?Marc-Andr=C3=A9_Lureau?= , Huacai Chen , Jason Wang References: <20250508133550.81391-1-philmd@linaro.org> <20250508133550.81391-13-philmd@linaro.org> <23260c74-01ba-45bc-bf2f-b3e19c28ec8a@intel.com> <2f526570-7ab0-479c-967c-b3f95f9f19e3@redhat.com> <87jz6mqeu5.fsf@pond.sub.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Mark Cave-Ayland In-Reply-To: <87jz6mqeu5.fsf@pond.sub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ClientProxiedBy: AM8P190CA0012.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:219::17) To BN8PR02MB5745.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:408:bb::31) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: BN8PR02MB5745:EE_|CYXPR02MB10227:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 6f74e079-8a46-48f8-ee9b-08dd916415df x-proofpoint-crosstenant: true X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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envelope-from=mark.caveayland@nutanix.com; helo=mx0b-002c1b01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.551, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 12/05/2025 11:54, Markus Armbruster wrote: > Daniel P. Berrangé writes: > >> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 09:46:30AM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote: >>> On Fri, 9 May 2025 at 11:04, Thomas Huth wrote: >>>> Thanks for your clarifications, Zhao! But I think this shows again the >>>> problem that we have hit a couple of times in the past already: Properties >>>> are currently used for both, config knobs for the users and internal >>>> switches for configuration of the machine. We lack a proper way to say "this >>>> property is usable for the user" and "this property is meant for internal >>>> configuration only". >>>> >>>> I wonder whether we could maybe come up with a naming scheme to better >>>> distinguish the two sets, e.g. by using a prefix similar to the "x-" prefix >>>> for experimental properties? We could e.g. say that all properties starting >>>> with a "q-" are meant for QEMU-internal configuration only or something >>>> similar (and maybe even hide those from the default help output when running >>>> "-device xyz,help" ?)? Anybody any opinions or better ideas on this? >>> >>> I think a q-prefix is potentially a bit clunky unless we also have >>> infrastructure to say eg DEFINE_INTERNAL_PROP_BOOL("foo", ...) >>> and have it auto-add the prefix, and to have the C APIs for >>> setting properties search for both "foo" and "q-foo" so you >>> don't have to write qdev_prop_set_bit(dev, "q-foo", ...). > > If we make intent explicit with DEFINE_INTERNAL_PROP_FOO(), is repeating > intent in the name useful? > >> I think it is also not obvious enough that a 'q-' prefix means private. > > Concur. > >> Perhaps borrow from the C world and declare that a leading underscore >> indicates a private property. People are more likely to understand and >> remember that, than 'q-'. > > This is fine for device properties now. It's not fine for properties of > user-creatable objects, because these are defined in QAPI, and QAPI > prohibits names starting with a single underscore. I append relevant > parts of docs/devel/qapi-code-gen.rst for your convenience. On a related note this also brings us back to the discussion as to the relationship between qdev and QOM: at one point I was under the impression that qdev properties were simply QOM properties that were exposed externally, i.e on the commmand line for use with -device. Can you provide an update on what the current thinking is in this area, in particular re: scoping of qdev vs QOM properties? ATB, Mark.