From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12on2050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.237.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 757FB1C3BE0; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 16:37:51 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=fail smtp.client-ip=40.107.237.50 ARC-Seal:i=2; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740069473; cv=fail; b=btAZircjlNKtU3Url5h5bNjKzoDD/g35zdSxCTWbfIt2BfM7BJFTQlUtfPAAdBPcITUM97P7DkgKaeIuKn6EGbxqfb/HpnmuOtTEpl2peBsqXqVE1wSSx50vyVUpOqUPhL1XnEfCmRgXwr/3HNLVWrVTUgtvpSsxP951HnEjRUk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=2; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740069473; c=relaxed/simple; bh=ILs/t9EkxYjNwRapwhEhPK/GHlN3E2S9A+kAK/ZAj5U=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References:Content-Type: Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version; b=PZn7MbozKiKGOTZMUUTUXZfeWJECpKEySiHJ519z6Kg9GmGTnHWUIrTve7XKK0ikenz0F7l1ylV/FxyJAvN7QErvUwk15Xu09Zgz1fwfBhyJ0gMiX63tqR3xmvwWWhuZXCPANsKjaDneAUiqrGfSCIdmmjirHPx+HOCgfAna7oA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=2; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=nvidia.com; spf=fail smtp.mailfrom=nvidia.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=Nvidia.com header.i=@Nvidia.com header.b=o/RtX+r8; arc=fail smtp.client-ip=40.107.237.50 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=reject dis=none) header.from=nvidia.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=fail smtp.mailfrom=nvidia.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=Nvidia.com header.i=@Nvidia.com header.b="o/RtX+r8" ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=v3MFoCM6A2I6zQjgyN/AdCAd2LF5E4dQIfS9BqfpmS6sQpNxCwf6ObK1CQGRAJIoNP+SM55ikGas9LJln9SOoqKCviQgqJQ86XTfwTcNFkOaBafi+TbQGo19ztYfhD6/VxSgV6RsTQSwGbU3yCqOZA73CDmM7CX9xcuTXoDFlVTbRhqnFQ2g78IQQPrBhwv9BHT2EG7Ohh7nkbBTKD7Vgx5/mneYoRVve/H3UrQ8wEdDZ36s+HUiSKVIFXEhL5aPCQ4l++lmi1urlok6Y4phml8c0pOWZAOx/5RdiyRd37GMX9OHctfYjSARI0oD/q9rTfesP1UDTCwQYah6oJjhWA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=qIbMfBMNb6C/kawLlU9KH2UL9BK+ayxWO6Is0/bUrDQ=; b=lRMxnsYCbEnMvyAm0My5bktnxwSAZo4qytp8qDCDNc5n0D9lVgF54wbJutDBHFbsC5ZpYAj+4FYrqirhDauwfdXmLyDZqy9sf+JS/gztqGoF0ixfUebjj2v4nUY8Hn4FPvTVksmSAc56M4Y7nr4cbOQqKqd8iL+AL06xNC4BzcPed5RcOOTAa6x3+5JeL/EjC7pIABfYE6rANC1sKKDpa37nhlXf9H1VTZIwG6SVMwQuCCWAX++UH7dR3gFw6joSyxA4pjHUbm6xcJ89r2m1U06UopNHRRqeZ+1BC9vARDbZXgVKybSQ3VONRk+tijD/j65Kss8T97w/KEY0IXdAxw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nvidia.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nvidia.com; dkim=pass header.d=nvidia.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=Nvidia.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=qIbMfBMNb6C/kawLlU9KH2UL9BK+ayxWO6Is0/bUrDQ=; b=o/RtX+r8f5TZhIvjdMBjfWP5/oW6KTHU85zfRShfb3ErVs5NwQSHDJpZTXDCPrkDzhxKHZSg2jd5PvfbbN5SaLlJoRGo2xEafMxRgg+XTAfVy5N1qFDIKUm7hT7HAAVKc7QV0ZsAt9mUtsDppm3s6Ky7+dLPeLR/SantmLDgyiPVcdbF9GWSN7lrqyOXna1VZvsxtDsQD97yLpoW0VRzVgd1eOBJ+qPVToyTYtdwHsyqSbVH+ckMaaMOTKI/hoasncRkqH9yxSKNpYgpumODSJINjJSOqIyZ9SxaU0xaVZ7tUaxnahlm8y3Xjyu0U3tW8Y9Z4L/n2bvYKEPM+XpxGw== Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=nvidia.com; Received: from CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:17c::13) by SA1PR12MB7197.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:2bd::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8445.19; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 16:37:48 +0000 Received: from CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6eb6:7d37:7b4b:1732]) by CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6eb6:7d37:7b4b:1732%4]) with mapi id 15.20.8445.019; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 16:37:48 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:37:47 -0400 From: Jason Gunthorpe To: David Airlie , Theodore Ts'o , "Dr. Greg" , Linus Torvalds , Hector Martin , Dave Airlie , Greg KH , phasta@kernel.org, Christoph Hellwig , Danilo Krummrich , Miguel Ojeda , Abdiel Janulgue , daniel.almeida@collabora.com, aliceryhl@google.com, robin.murphy@arm.com, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Boqun Feng , Gary Guo , Bj??rn Roy Baron , Benno Lossin , Andreas Hindborg , Trevor Gross , Valentin Obst , open list , Marek Szyprowski , "open list:DMA MAPPING HELPERS" , DRI Development Subject: Re: On community influencing (was Re: [PATCH v8 2/2] rust: add dma coherent allocator abstraction.) Message-ID: <20250220163747.GA69996@nvidia.com> References: <20250131135421.GO5556@nvidia.com> <2b9b75d1-eb8e-494a-b05f-59f75c92e6ae@marcan.st> <208e1fc3-cfc3-4a26-98c3-a48ab35bb9db@marcan.st> <20250207121638.GA7356@wind.enjellic.com> <20250208204416.GL1130956@mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: BN9PR03CA0469.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:408:139::24) To CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:17c::13) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CH3PR12MB8659:EE_|SA1PR12MB7197:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 1a871814-61a2-41da-d279-08dd51cce938 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|366016|376014|7416014|1800799024|921020; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: =?utf-8?B?SHpNZ3d2Ky9VK2J4RnlMeWs4TVlnZTdueTQ1QXM0NnNsM2xzK0dXdEM1dTNj?= =?utf-8?B?RzFaeVNxWWIvNW45UGRueGVsa3prR3hwM1JPS0tyR3U0VnVUWGRZR3FxM3Uw?= =?utf-8?B?UWEzbmFUMHdsT2s2dGMvQytuM2xyczRFNmg5ZUFlYmhRMGR4bGk2eSs3aVlh?= =?utf-8?B?Q01rY3h2enppNU5ML09NS0tkdllxR3htUzhHUFB3NWVEb0FFdE5XSGUzalo5?= =?utf-8?B?bVN6MkdzUG9UUFk1UThJREpSa0Q2aG9yajl5VnB3eHcvOExxZXhtSURiNlYv?= =?utf-8?B?empnWk8wMXpNUVF0TVliYWYyZXk3NXNaWXFFUy8xaWVKc3RwZkQ2TDZKdnlX?= =?utf-8?B?RmI2UnBSUEp2RzJOc244ejA2UGNPZGdNZzFtOFJvcEt1Nm8rRW9RckxUNWx1?= =?utf-8?B?WkRKZGVmZ3F6aUhnZXl4eGxwckRlUXBzYTFaRnR5aFNadnpCbG4rZ2JSMDYy?= =?utf-8?B?UXlpaG9BMmZqVjI5MytqRGFxOXdITnpUemtVTGl3T2JIZkZHK0o3QW15MFRB?= =?utf-8?B?czhwcXN2MHFDdm9vcDRGSWI4M2JuMmRKZTZIWHNpSjlucGRWcXRrb096aksw?= =?utf-8?B?YWhTYXR1V3hTTy9MU24wWXZmcFQycUgwZXRyU3FlUDRCenk2ZEM4NHJPQ3pO?= =?utf-8?B?RXlRbnkxTGkwbDg2K1AzSkNjeUhCUmU0RzBwaE9DaWpKTnMxRW1ZR3crZ0tu?= =?utf-8?B?dDZyMnYrV3lEQzBSamJNMDNpWEdrczVQL0R2Q2VUSTVqOVBad1U4TWs0OUs0?= =?utf-8?B?dHgwWE1ZRjdwTEwveDlqOEcyVzhpYUcvRFJDSkRNTUFITFJtRWd1Uk0zbVc5?= =?utf-8?B?dTY5STR0bkp3M2NxZExtY3RrN2R4bUJScHVmdjNqVWRWcm9TUW9ON1Rwc2dJ?= =?utf-8?B?NGRDSWFjRGRlb1VvNXRaeTFCcEViLzdZUmEyMm5sWit4b043WCtIS2NScDJj?= =?utf-8?B?WjVNMGp5L2tTZ1NyNVhQQkNjTmVKOWtDSkZEc0xoYTNWNUV0UnoxT3BlVGhm?= =?utf-8?B?YjNKMGZJM1dlbHd5cnVUOStpdGY4RHl4bEswVkFNbEIrS2ZJMmFwMWFzVkx2?= =?utf-8?B?YVM1M1FIUldCUWFTaFFHNlU5ZDVNd283RDFDRDM1VXlvQkE1a2UwYUZiMDJE?= =?utf-8?B?WUdJbkdIdDc2ZnE2elR5RXhwVmFNam9CTENKVDQ3REpsN0pzaWF2aEE2MXd6?= =?utf-8?B?eTJjR3Rha1lVdXNnT29IcmthWWJyOU5kTExWY2UvL2VvaXk3NXM2SWdoM0VJ?= =?utf-8?B?eXArYmZPeFFDbGNkYmhqbWFFYXVwUkxMUW5WR2Q5Q0Z0aXh1TzlQVDJwZ2kz?= =?utf-8?B?YWxiVUhJQWw5OXRYaEY1eDBYVmlmb1dqT1VXRHdIZmYyVHJSMms4VzZOMUNh?= =?utf-8?B?bnA0OXlIZXFGUTU4MTEraHRBV1Y1cUc3K3lkVEppVXlKZlVIaStlRWdDZzlE?= =?utf-8?B?STQzSElHNWZHdGwzL3prMkdnamppZEllbHA4Mkk3KzRQaGlxRE9rZnl3Ny8y?= =?utf-8?B?NStob3cvYTVxWWpuaHZ1SmRzZk1OZ2I0NEFYU3ZzOUVGSE00OUk0TmZsOTly?= =?utf-8?B?UkhXZFRZNUp4Qkl0VFgwRDIxMjFSd1I0bGpMbmR5REdqQmNoUEpEZk9aeTFP?= =?utf-8?B?bERLVDVGcE95YmNQTnN6MFZwcUlLSzB4R0U3NGxvdnhKb2YzMnMweWVYdEVk?= =?utf-8?B?T2hmWjBNSlRpT2kxYTFvY2xFcTNxR3JGeTlFZmhyc0VaVEpTM2l3WnZpMGEx?= =?utf-8?B?ZFhXYjI5bG1ybkpuSUdYdzJvWmZuV3RndXZydS8zTFZtWTk2Y1h5MUpoNnhC?= =?utf-8?B?NmMwY25HVzFURTZPYjZrdm5zcTFNdnR6enFBRjRwam5jalNyWmRyQXlKakF3?= =?utf-8?B?SS9WQm84R1ZGV1o0cVdQT1Z5bmhOR3F3KzEydmpqUWdvNytsMi9SQ0gzaks4?= =?utf-8?Q?ZB8wYr7TxXM=3D?= X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(366016)(376014)(7416014)(1800799024)(921020);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?NmNMVExwcmsxM3lSMXgyK21VMVlCWFhNZElxRlI5OWppdVdnTXJXeDBPdW9k?= =?utf-8?B?R1pJVm1pMTB4bm1GWlBSQlpCN05ya0UvMU1yR3NUV1ZUUjZXdGFHTWdwTENz?= =?utf-8?B?U245cnZTS29zSW9ZeUdLSlJ0dFNMd2FzYk9WZkJreUMwU1N5NGlXbDIzRzZY?= =?utf-8?B?M053S0pUc1VCVm5CSnduNnRHN244aldFckVTQVFUd21EdUFsQXY0L0lrYW5V?= =?utf-8?B?NDM4TjNlYmgwMjFRTVM1WEo4RXJYY0VNUTBXVFJucDZRNFRXTkhTZ2NRR3BN?= =?utf-8?B?ejhtQ1VXWEUrSFRNQ0ZxYk1Mc1drSWYvaEpnNmlKQmZQbDNVOHZOZ3JhWnAy?= =?utf-8?B?Vno5OExUMUNyNXovSHl5c3UrajVuV0kwbmpMZDJRQkR1WFBhdjJTcVM1WDFQ?= =?utf-8?B?MHBBMzRvRko0RWp1WEFkZ1NHdHM3TDB4OENaZjFjK09Zc25BNXdlOGlmMkxj?= =?utf-8?B?SjBXYVVUQjNhZlBocUY5NUg0dFF3UnBKR1lnWVZ6Zmg1TjJuVk5vWEkvNnNX?= =?utf-8?B?RTIrTTU4YkQ1dEoxaWdCL3JkdjhtdVJnQjFnREpONE5jc0t5RHZGeERTcnFI?= =?utf-8?B?NytpM01peG9UZjlnczloRTdRTXhEb0FrL3p0WGo5YnNhMDJZOHJkY2NuTzBU?= =?utf-8?B?UGxRSEZ0cUEzN0RlNWZ4Ny9yZHNNMVp4N3N5T2puaUdHaTBhMmlpTzQ0T0J2?= =?utf-8?B?cG5LZzA0ZE5KN3lDUVp3MmQzdGt0RnZXNTBaYXlzVThSb2hnb0tuZFhoZ0xJ?= =?utf-8?B?TkpYeENQd1dzMSsxR25kcTdReUs2ZHVtRld4dklJbWhDZFlLMXVVNjl4STl4?= =?utf-8?B?N1ltaFV6R3djUU9HZCswNVJEOVkvOTk1dXdrTE51a1lxRWIxVjdWSzBZT09H?= =?utf-8?B?UHJkVlRzVXh5NkxiZVBqbVl6V2NZTG4zY1dDWU13bmFCeUJwU090aDNKUFFi?= =?utf-8?B?QUczbzlzdnEvL3cvK2hKeHJXRzI5eCtCdXc5UGIwV0x6b3NkUENVZmlEcTV6?= =?utf-8?B?dVIydjJ1R1crU1VkZ0xMbm9JcFlETDlIVXJnRVM2TDBQOXVSUXVxNUUyVGZB?= =?utf-8?B?YjRMV05mVGxzcmNsNzBsVVRuSEYxUU5TTjNYd1QwU0VvUWw2bTBlaTFrc3p4?= =?utf-8?B?bW1OMzFmU0p4MlVYTEVRQVdXL1BNd2xFM0FQY0ZmVW1acEZtVUpGQXBvQWJB?= =?utf-8?B?RmZrZk5jZnlCKzFMcDkxNTNsMy9yOEFTdFB3TFdHcytKU04wTkI3bFUxbitC?= =?utf-8?B?TFJuM1VITEVUck5mc3NrUERWdU5KcTg1djR4eU92ZWRvU0N0Yi81RWhscTNP?= =?utf-8?B?VDY1ZHk5eUM2aDEybjJEMTZTaDgxZmxaUll3bUJselAwL0JXQW1XUFp2cndi?= =?utf-8?B?YkpHNDZod1BlUmNVWnczZS9SK1pxSWx3bXorYzhQeGRwUmNXRmZZbWhwR2ky?= =?utf-8?B?SlBqMDM2QThnem1uSUxRMTNHaXN3TWpjSkJ3aEFyRlZrT0tDZ2dsb2NjaWtC?= =?utf-8?B?Wnd5RFErYWNaakxvVWtkU1F0d3djd2M1RE9wTGsvNUdFOUVxL0ptZ2gzMjJp?= =?utf-8?B?d0hGUEJSaUtLa1dsTk9taDlaQlNPczg5K2dnZnNoRDJ1dWlyRnlHWDBBVmw5?= =?utf-8?B?VTVzUWVmYS8vK3U0VFhHckdIcHMxbnBGc0Zmb3RxeG1NRklyaDdaWjJINUp3?= =?utf-8?B?OVlVVVYxaDNGM0FXbVV6Z25Tc1EzK0RUa1dXUHd3V21UVnJ6OU5lb0tWU0J2?= =?utf-8?B?WmRMcVBhMmQ5VXhJM0dzL3RURnNSOGxBL05pcmNjNFZLdTZmZ1orUEs5cTJS?= =?utf-8?B?N2ZocWlmV2NMY1JsSzJFMU9BbnFIZlhNR3Vrc0tSdVUzNUpVS2lxTm5ObE5F?= =?utf-8?B?MytiRkZKMVJuUitXbVpPWjFkOTVnSkg4NjdkVGJ5eGlZODFCYkNSY2hzdXRs?= =?utf-8?B?UExVZitualRuSHdEUjVnUFpsUUt4WWJJOEM5ck0rMEd3RC9ZWTZNMkpXcVIv?= =?utf-8?B?eDVwbFdCMjZRWHZDcXBpSmM4aEhrNUlHMWs2VkpXRTJtVjRDWDV3SkowZ3ZP?= =?utf-8?B?YXJEY1JzZTZacDFRNkgvaXA5dzlaVktjc0dRZFVJUXc3ZTZnVkg4aFpJUk4x?= =?utf-8?Q?JhJs=3D?= X-OriginatorOrg: Nvidia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1a871814-61a2-41da-d279-08dd51cce938 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH3PR12MB8659.namprd12.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2025 16:37:48.6080 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 43083d15-7273-40c1-b7db-39efd9ccc17a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: L1BBLayiN8xxTR8tVstTk+OAvBk2YDjLA+oog6H63Vt0ZKzNlJDthpnEX65mT4wj X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR12MB7197 On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 05:24:01PM +0100, Simona Vetter wrote: > Better analogy aside, I fundamentally disagree with understanding > maintainership as a gatekeeper role that exists to keep the chaos out. My > goal is to help build a community where people enjoy collaborating, and > then gtfo so I don't hinder them. I think the talk I linked above is > holding up quite well even years later, but the last part really embodies > that idea, so let me just quote that: > > Be a Steward, Not a Lord > > I think one of key advantages of open source is that people stick > around for a very long time. Even when they switch jobs or move > around. Maybe the usual “for life” qualifier isn’t really a great > choice, since it sounds more like a mandatory sentence than something > done by choice. What I object to is the “dictator” part, since if your > goal is to grow a great community and maybe reach world domination, > then you as the maintainer need to serve that community. And not that > the community serves you. +1 I agree and try, as best I can, to embody this. Jason