rust-for-linux.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Gary Guo <gary@garyguo.net>
To: Ventura Jack <venturajack85@gmail.com>
Cc: torvalds@linux-foundation.org, airlied@gmail.com,
	boqun.feng@gmail.com, david.laight.linux@gmail.com, ej@inai.de,
	gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, hch@infradead.org, hpa@zytor.com,
	ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 14:15:21 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250222141521.1fe24871@eugeo> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFJgqgRygssuSya_HCdswguuj3nDf_sP9y2zq4GGrN1-d7RMRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 03:06:44 -0700
Ventura Jack <venturajack85@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Gcc used to initialize it all, but as of gcc-15 it apparently says
> >"Oh, the standard allows this crazy behavior, so we'll do it by  
> default".
> >
> >Yeah. People love to talk about "safe C", but compiler people have
> >actively tried to make C unsafer for decades. The C standards
> >committee has been complicit. I've ranted about the crazy C alias
> >rules before.  
> 
> Unsafe Rust actually has way stricter rules for aliasing than C. For
> you and others who don't like C's aliasing, it may be best to avoid
> unsafe Rust.
> 

I think the frequently criticized C aliasing rules are *type-based
aliasing*. Rust does not have type based aliasing restrictions.

It does have mutability based aliasing rules, but that's easier to
reason about, and we have mechanisms to disable them if needed at much
finer granularity.

Best,
Gary

  reply	other threads:[~2025-02-22 14:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 194+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-02-22 10:06 C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 14:15 ` Gary Guo [this message]
2025-02-22 15:03   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 18:54     ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 19:18       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 20:00         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 20:54           ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-22 21:22             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:46               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 22:34                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:56                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-22 22:12               ` David Laight
2025-02-22 22:46                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 23:50               ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-23  0:06                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 21:22             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-23 15:30         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-23 16:28           ` David Laight
2025-02-24  0:27           ` Gary Guo
2025-02-24  9:57             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 10:31               ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:21                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 12:47                   ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 16:57                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 22:03                       ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 23:04                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:38                           ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-25 22:47                             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 23:03                               ` Benno Lossin
2025-02-24 12:58           ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-02-24 14:47             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 14:54               ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 16:42                 ` Philip Herron
2025-02-25 15:55                   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:30                     ` Arthur Cohen
2025-02-26 11:38               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-24 15:43             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-24 17:24               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 16:12           ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 17:21             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 17:36               ` Alice Ryhl
2025-02-25 18:16                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 20:21                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:37                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-26 13:03                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:53                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:07                         ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:26                         ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 14:37                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:39                           ` Greg KH
2025-02-26 14:45                             ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:00                               ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 16:42                                 ` James Bottomley
2025-02-26 16:47                                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 16:57                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 17:41                                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 17:47                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:07                                           ` Josh Poimboeuf
2025-03-02 12:19                                           ` David Laight
2025-02-26 17:11                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 17:42                             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 12:36                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 13:52                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 15:21                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:06                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:49                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 18:36                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:14                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 15:40                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:10                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 16:50                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 21:39                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 15:11                             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:32                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-25 18:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 19:47               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 20:25                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 20:55                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-25 21:24                     ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-25 23:34                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:57                         ` Gary Guo
2025-02-27 14:43                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 14:26                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-25 22:45                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26  0:05                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-25 22:42                 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 14:01                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 13:54               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 17:59                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 19:01                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 20:00                   ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 21:14                     ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:21                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:54                         ` David Laight
2025-02-27  0:35                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-26 21:26                       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:37                         ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 21:42                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 21:56                           ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:13                             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 22:22                               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 22:35                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-26 23:18                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 23:28                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27  0:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 20:47                                   ` David Laight
2025-02-27 21:33                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-28 21:29                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 21:41                                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 22:20                                       ` David Laight
2025-02-27 22:40                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-28  7:44                                     ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 15:41                                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 15:46                                         ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:04                                           ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:13                                             ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-28 16:21                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28 16:40                                                 ` Boqun Feng
2025-03-04 18:12                                         ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 22:27                       ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 23:16                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27  0:17                           ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27  0:26                           ` comex
2025-02-27 18:33                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:15                             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27 19:55                               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 20:28                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-28  7:53                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 19:16                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27  4:18                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27  5:52                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-27  6:56                           ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-27 14:29                             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-27 17:35                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:13                                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 19:10                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-27 18:00                           ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 18:44                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 14:21                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 15:27                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-28  8:08                     ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28  8:32                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 20:25                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 20:34                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2025-02-26 22:45                   ` David Laight
2025-02-22 19:41       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-22 20:49         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-26 11:34           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 14:57             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 16:32               ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 18:09                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 22:28                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 23:08                     ` David Laight
2025-02-27 13:55                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 17:33                     ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58                       ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 19:06                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 19:45                           ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-27 20:22                             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-27 22:18                               ` David Laight
2025-02-27 23:18                                 ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-28  7:38                                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-28 20:48                                   ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 20:41                             ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-28 22:13                               ` Geoffrey Thomas
2025-03-01 14:19                                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-03-04 18:24                               ` Ralf Jung
2025-03-06 18:49                                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-27 17:58                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-27 19:25                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-26 19:07                 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-26 19:23                   ` Ralf Jung
2025-02-26 20:22                     ` Martin Uecker
     [not found] <CAFJgqgRZ1w0ONj2wbcczx2=boXYHoLOd=-ke7tHGBAcifSfPUw@mail.gmail.com>
2025-02-25 15:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-25 16:45   ` Ventura Jack
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2025-02-09 20:56 Rust kernel policy Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 16:08 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-18 18:46   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 21:49     ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-18 22:54       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19  0:58         ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-19  3:04           ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19  5:39             ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 12:28               ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 12:37                 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 13:23                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 15:17                     ` C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 16:46                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-20 20:34                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-21  8:31                       ` HUANG Zhaobin
2025-02-21 18:34                       ` David Laight
2025-02-21 19:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 20:07                           ` comex
2025-02-21 21:45                           ` David Laight
2025-02-22  6:32                             ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  6:37                               ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  8:41                                 ` David Laight
2025-02-22  9:11                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-21 20:06                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-21 20:23                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 20:24                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 22:02                             ` David Laight
2025-02-21 22:13                               ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-22  5:56                                 ` comex
2025-02-21 20:26                           ` Linus Torvalds

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20250222141521.1fe24871@eugeo \
    --to=gary@garyguo.net \
    --cc=airlied@gmail.com \
    --cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
    --cc=david.laight.linux@gmail.com \
    --cc=ej@inai.de \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=hch@infradead.org \
    --cc=hpa@zytor.com \
    --cc=ksummit@lists.linux.dev \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com \
    --cc=rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=venturajack85@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).