From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC35A1A724C; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:16:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740039377; cv=none; b=MMm0yc2YH5tsicfZo383nojiLuUc+n5LX7Wta+xUxnrA/YUCRBPi409OJD9XQGT9uKheFONivBmIEr/px0UvXt8DHgSz+tR57bIafHEcCIugxUi59ddlM2uG3Q7xOK+V2HQ1KVGHBpc4c8eTOgam5oEvpzCqM2oCjhGMKpntP6U= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740039377; c=relaxed/simple; bh=GP7AxklUBzLsozEKv5c2EG9BorLrkNxDxENqdr/H41c=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=I5P3EymYDnIb2yoNbva0HpV8VaWzZqfZOAlKx6N0NV+7fYvBhbnYDMRIJk1ScDtUOYnSr6js4LfZts7i/MGE2VSjcN6RCHRtUnmC816AUWVyZgNy9gJQ0g+wMD4aBsYc6uZqXz9nFXjBn3jBp3o10u2viNuhu/OxYGo3fh5iJTg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=VNClqGGw; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="VNClqGGw" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F146C4CED1; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:16:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1740039375; bh=GP7AxklUBzLsozEKv5c2EG9BorLrkNxDxENqdr/H41c=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=VNClqGGwvKMeIWrCNypiUBzq9erBADPiFjBLJ07Tl/YDS5M6fBFm2bJZ07d5jO7iU l7nml0ZpQ1hBQn8sYmYvUAdjkL+qjfsUMhwYxh9kXcU+J2dZlyX+wdIiRQ2/r7xBH2 G5ejIVluU476DUVQCOP4NAi7XrkcNgrPmZDenIOjQkqgWuow34JSQhsae2k+DsyuhO HKe5/irf9f08wH/8lQYOFDQuhZE7jYGX8v60n0iVmU/Oq9Pr88oYKd+toVdiGpJg1u BCcpWmwKuRxcUnyJiDfKoFJdnqPLL8g7nRBsIQ2K9mKrQ50MDISqmr0QeVSYLESPQZ 2M3Uo0mv/cLQA== Message-ID: <4e1abc9c1ab07aeecc157a366c0b5eb91a177f2a.camel@kernel.org> Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy From: Jarkko Sakkinen To: Bart Van Assche , Steven Rostedt , Jason Gunthorpe Cc: Kees Cook , Miguel Ojeda , Christoph Hellwig , rust-for-linux , Linus Torvalds , Greg KH , David Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 10:16:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <89f2547edcaaba53d9965cab9133d809607330ac.camel@kernel.org> References: <202502191026.8B6FD47A1@keescook> <20250219140821.27fa1e8a@gandalf.local.home> <202502191117.8E1BCD4615@keescook> <20250219202751.GA42073@nvidia.com> <20250219154610.30dc6223@gandalf.local.home> <97841173-1de8-4221-8bf3-3470a5ac98a7@acm.org> <89f2547edcaaba53d9965cab9133d809607330ac.camel@kernel.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Thu, 2025-02-20 at 10:13 +0200, Jarkko Sakkinen wrote: > On Wed, 2025-02-19 at 12:52 -0800, Bart Van Assche wrote: > > On 2/19/25 12:46 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > > I do feel that new drivers written in Rust would help with the > > > vulnerabilities that new drivers usually add to the kernel. > >=20 > > For driver developers it is easier to learn C than to learn Rust. > > I'm > > not sure that all driver developers, especially the "drive by" > > developers, have the skills to learn Rust. >=20 > IMHO, Rust is not that difficult to learn but it is difficult to > run. >=20 > One point of difficulty for me still is the QA part, not really the > code. QuickStart discusses on how to install all the shenanigans > with distribution package managers. >=20 > The reality of actual kernel development is that you almost never > compile/run host-to-host, rendering that part of the documentation > in the battlefield next to useless. >=20 > Instead it should have instructions for BuildRoot, Yocto and > perhaps NixOS (via podman). It should really explain this instead > of dnf/apt-get etc. If I got a Rust patch for review cycle, I would not have any idea what to do with it. And I'm talking about writing a single line of code but how to put that patch into a QA cycle (personally using BR for this, which is somewhat popular choice among kernel maintainers). So I would put "NAK because cannot test this". BR, Jarkko