From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E50C77B73 for ; Thu, 4 May 2023 20:56:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229559AbjEDU4q (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 May 2023 16:56:46 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51050 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S231278AbjEDU4l (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 May 2023 16:56:41 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15C151FF9 for ; Thu, 4 May 2023 13:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-517ca8972c5so130961a12.0 for ; Thu, 04 May 2023 13:56:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel-dk.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1683233723; x=1685825723; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/gHEhMKT9GBaN9OxubZFLqV6RzaUkfxxEP2gzqQjTJo=; b=xmbz80sVRqhlJ1ie0lgFthhHlViw2dyCZoBeTedExuHEFouFm+OsPQzNxoj5AVTJiI dzSylmUHi9dTskEwQUwmpdaYt1K+4o+kuVp32zsiY3YowTfaKTCZNim1tdb283hvfOp8 09CkD9b0vRjpj+cVBiDojXm7pXzkoGl6hGAY7tOceMxonHZ3ZVymbBj6LUC/qCh4vX/a bApfeEyYmZYipPd2VjGphcKwxaNSfD+6Y+HEo081uk5RJ2vnpWRz7teUgrGMxdwpvEZg AE7NCOjBi23HH+pNKDHQqFE0msKnZxAfcFtvkzeleOQkofcqAhDpsjz8rDgp3GpUTFez 9Ekw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683233723; x=1685825723; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/gHEhMKT9GBaN9OxubZFLqV6RzaUkfxxEP2gzqQjTJo=; b=ZC4ZkgUuiTMYMtthGhUsXDJm/MuuS0kTzjviZS7KYebmejEWlkaEy7dhLkitDdH1/L ElrJ2zyXKqyY4eiHSX0El2/escVYkw9+zNtoFwYrpEFvRbnBvgyaXgSlKTHLXdmgaFNz P51jUJujlWmHS251XJ7kab2/jnkeo6fS7ZS84miOD1hwG5L7dG0J81QspBjAkaItuEwR 7H0dKd1z8Tfod55IuyjS/monGlXUQOcuLdsE8HN/HPQtnvtU4nhzyb+cedVJjXvpRE5v BL79iMYa3DzD32hfFe1yU0jVzlinyFlZQPVWbwL+PaMPxE073aaBCW+R28Cv46En7WHC wAgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDylW5OQH9w0a8EQ2pE886RDgKR4AVBt+euYnFC60/5dw/9ThSE6 roNgZj+/IUOEBL1DKfFDLrB5mXy6zp//HmZpNH8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ7cSRKGSnvkFB0S4zZLqTu1C+ROgHFBUfU+QKoNjODu/ChiksCC/9eWmF7IDIxRWC1tOOWE+g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:493:b0:763:86b1:6111 with SMTP id y19-20020a056602049300b0076386b16111mr8372024iov.2.1683231778063; Thu, 04 May 2023 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.94] ([96.43.243.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c4-20020a5d9a84000000b00763601c4bfesm9164423iom.55.2023.05.04.13.22.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 04 May 2023 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <80ed2c0e-54db-777a-175b-1aa3ff776724@kernel.dk> Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 14:22:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux aarch64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/11] Rust null block driver Content-Language: en-US To: Miguel Ojeda Cc: Keith Busch , Bart Van Assche , Andreas Hindborg , Christoph Hellwig , Damien Le Moal , Hannes Reinecke , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Matthew Wilcox , Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Wedson Almeida Filho , Boqun Feng , Gary Guo , =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=c3=b6rn_Roy_Baron?= , Benno Lossin , open list , gost.dev@samsung.com, Daniel Vetter References: <20230503090708.2524310-1-nmi@metaspace.dk> <87jzxot0jk.fsf@metaspace.dk> From: Jens Axboe In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org On 5/4/23 2:11?PM, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 9:02?PM Jens Axboe wrote: >> >> But back to the real question... This is obviously extra burden on >> maintainers, and that needs to be sorted out first. Block drivers in > > Regarding maintenance, something we have suggested in similar cases to > other subsystems is that the author gets involved as a maintainer of, > at least, the Rust abstractions/driver (possibly with a different > `MAINTAINERS` entry). Right, but that doesn't really solve the problem when the rust bindings get in the way of changes that you are currently making. Or if you break them inadvertently. I do see benefits to that approach, but it's no panacea. > Of course, that is still work for the existing maintainer(s), i.e. > you, since coordination takes time. However, it can also be a nice way > to learn Rust on the side, meanwhile things are getting upstreamed and > discussed (I think Daniel, in Cc, is taking that approach). This seems to assume that time is plentiful and we can just add more to our plate, which isn't always true. While I'd love to do more rust and get more familiar with it, the time still has to be there for that. I'm actually typing this on a laptop with a rust gpu driver :-) And this isn't just on me, there are other regular contributors and reviewers that would need to be onboard with this. > And it may also be a way for you to get an extra > maintainer/reviewer/... later on for the C parts, too, even if Rust > does not succeed. That is certainly a win! >> general are not super security sensitive, as it's mostly privileged code >> and there's not a whole lot of user visibile API. And the stuff we do >> have is reasonably basic. So what's the long term win of having rust >> bindings? This is a legitimate question. I can see a lot of other more >> user exposed subsystems being of higher interest here. > > From the experience of other kernel maintainers/developers that are > making the move, the advantages seem to be well worth it, even > disregarding the security aspect, i.e. on the language side alone. Each case is different though, different people and different schedules and priorities. So while the above is promising, it's also just annecdotal and doesn't necessarily apply to our case. -- Jens Axboe