From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B54A1E9B2F; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:14:05 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740039246; cv=none; b=B7lFfQRX9eFOSFokDlkmXf/+RT1ZJVI7OT6CMh3/9pmmx26hh8xX2rPRkBjqO0aJK4hKONOSP4dNG+vU/D92kmJGhgXDwrQ49CPPH6h0tpIEY1+9QDHpJNj/hrISXfFU47hBCn6hGRzMCjkscN+eUTZ0epa2Fc/KXnytSZtNJcY= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1740039246; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Eqe/Uvw96JVKBRs26wtSbq8i3q48ATm99ekOa48MCF4=; h=Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=eP3OkaXgxYG8ygSomrls2qBeXT/kORggtbhLN3sh1PGsZ7sEOz3xXXMKOyGKZL7TVFjWW3VG+6HJth0yzRq7nm8GeFoHBZZNokYPyHL7hTmmz5oTubiOU+VQsikp7t/IGtOMTXUq7jBI025XkfZkbSM/kdmAk1q5+1kS0Lcs8tI= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=UiyLPBMK; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="UiyLPBMK" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5EACDC4CED1; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:14:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1740039245; bh=Eqe/Uvw96JVKBRs26wtSbq8i3q48ATm99ekOa48MCF4=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=UiyLPBMK4DnvdP0CZYEB+uBf6zae+8832jznC2KIn4/Vyo808acimOhvbf0Csn/Tu 9rSitKXL6dKPqOpg4A0nKBDsZw3AGks1zBJjuzlwQo2N7txG318eOJ1SfZEmLv1Jwk xOvC8s/tU8wk9cc3wXS8Px3MeNCzhDXo8Bl81ST2sBm759YCgKYyRfwIpfV4mKFQf5 JDr86yQH3BlXxolHKlWhomjQt5L4kfXE0xWp+fQhHuyr0gOnM2oaPAekmbw+1QlUXt wvTcsw1PZeT9/opFi4Ey62CRIQsAOl4TTnXXLRa6yb+ev575ZMXUeShUNSTI/z0wkx 7R4+fwRttbdpg== Message-ID: <89f2547edcaaba53d9965cab9133d809607330ac.camel@kernel.org> Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy From: Jarkko Sakkinen To: Bart Van Assche , Steven Rostedt , Jason Gunthorpe Cc: Kees Cook , Miguel Ojeda , Christoph Hellwig , rust-for-linux , Linus Torvalds , Greg KH , David Airlie , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 10:13:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <97841173-1de8-4221-8bf3-3470a5ac98a7@acm.org> References: <202502191026.8B6FD47A1@keescook> <20250219140821.27fa1e8a@gandalf.local.home> <202502191117.8E1BCD4615@keescook> <20250219202751.GA42073@nvidia.com> <20250219154610.30dc6223@gandalf.local.home> <97841173-1de8-4221-8bf3-3470a5ac98a7@acm.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, 2025-02-19 at 12:52 -0800, Bart Van Assche wrote: > On 2/19/25 12:46 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > I do feel that new drivers written in Rust would help with the > > vulnerabilities that new drivers usually add to the kernel. >=20 > For driver developers it is easier to learn C than to learn Rust. I'm > not sure that all driver developers, especially the "drive by" > developers, have the skills to learn Rust. IMHO, Rust is not that difficult to learn but it is difficult to run. One point of difficulty for me still is the QA part, not really the code. QuickStart discusses on how to install all the shenanigans with distribution package managers. The reality of actual kernel development is that you almost never compile/run host-to-host, rendering that part of the documentation in the battlefield next to useless. Instead it should have instructions for BuildRoot, Yocto and perhaps NixOS (via podman). It should really explain this instead of dnf/apt-get etc. >=20 > Bart. >=20 BR, Jarkko