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From: Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com>
To: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
Cc: Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	 rust-for-linux <rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org>,
	 Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	 David Airlie <airlied@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: Rust kernel policy
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 00:42:46 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CANiq72nwouotAqJh_cm=9RG3Ns4wxX0LWXcVwp_bswE29kCrYA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <785A9F60-F687-41DE-A116-34E37F5B407A@zytor.com>

On Wed, Feb 19, 2025 at 8:34 PM H. Peter Anvin <hpa@zytor.com> wrote:
>
> a. The apparent vast gap in maturity required of Rust versus C. What is our maturity policy going to be? Otherwise we are putting a lot of burden on C maintainers which is effectively wasted of the kernel configuration pulls in even one line of Rust.
>
> This is particularly toxic given the "no parallel code" claimed in this policy document (which really needs references if it is to be taken seriously; as written, it looks like a specific opinion.)

There is no "no parallel code" in the document, and I would like a
clarification on what you mean by "toxic" here.

I tried really hard to avoid misrepresenting anything, and the
document explicitly mentions at the top that this is our
understanding, and that the policy could change depending on what key
maintainers and the community discuss. (If it is put into the kernel
tree, then that solves that.).

Anyway, I can only guess you are referring to the "Are duplicated
C/Rust drivers allowed?" point. If so, since you want references, here
is one:

    No, don't do that, it's horrid and we have been down that road in the
    past and we don't want to do it again.  One driver per device please.

    https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/2023091349-hazelnut-espionage-4f2b@gregkh/

Things evolved after those discussions, which is why I ended up
writing the "Rust reference drivers" framework that got later used for
PHY:

    https://rust-for-linux.com/rust-reference-drivers

I hope that helps the document "to be taken seriously".

Cheers,
Miguel

  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-02-20 23:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-02-09 20:56 Rust kernel policy Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 16:08 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-18 16:35   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-18 16:39     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-18 18:08       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-18 21:22         ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19  6:20           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-19  6:35             ` Dave Airlie
2025-02-19 11:37               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-19 13:25                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2025-02-19 13:40                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-19  7:05             ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19 11:32               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-18 17:36   ` Jiri Kosina
2025-02-20  6:33     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-20 18:40       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2025-02-18 18:46   ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-18 21:49     ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-18 22:38       ` Dave Airlie
2025-02-18 22:54       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19  0:58         ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-19  3:04           ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-19  5:07             ` NeilBrown
2025-02-19  5:39             ` Greg KH
2025-02-19 15:05               ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-20 20:49                 ` Lyude Paul
2025-02-21 19:24                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-20  7:03               ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-20  7:10                 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20  8:57                   ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-20 13:46                     ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-20 14:09                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-20 14:38                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 15:25                         ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-20 15:49                         ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22 15:30                         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-20 14:53                     ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 15:40                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21  0:46                         ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-21  9:48                         ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-21 16:28                           ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21 17:43                             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-21 18:07                               ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 18:19                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-21 18:31                                 ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21 19:30                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 19:59                                     ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21 20:11                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22  7:20                                         ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21 22:24                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-21 23:04                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22 17:53                                         ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 18:44                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-23 16:42                                         ` David Laight
2025-02-22 18:42                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-22  9:45                                   ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-22 10:25                                     ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-22 11:07                                       ` Greg KH
2025-02-21 18:23                               ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-21 22:14                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-03-01 13:22                             ` Askar Safin
2025-03-01 13:55                               ` Martin Uecker
2025-03-02  6:50                               ` Kees Cook
2025-02-21 18:11                           ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-02-24  8:12                             ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-20 22:08                     ` Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-22 23:42                     ` Piotr Masłowski
2025-02-23  8:10                       ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-23 23:31                       ` comex
2025-02-24  9:08                         ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-24 18:03                           ` Martin Uecker
2025-02-20 12:28               ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 12:37                 ` Greg KH
2025-02-20 13:23                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 13:51                     ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-20 15:17                     ` C aggregate passing (Rust kernel policy) Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-20 16:46                       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-20 20:34                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-21  8:31                       ` HUANG Zhaobin
2025-02-21 18:34                       ` David Laight
2025-02-21 19:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 20:07                           ` comex
2025-02-21 21:45                           ` David Laight
2025-02-22  6:32                             ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  6:37                               ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-22  8:41                                 ` David Laight
2025-02-22  9:11                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-21 20:06                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2025-02-21 20:23                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 20:24                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-21 22:02                             ` David Laight
2025-02-21 22:13                               ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-22  5:56                                 ` comex
2025-02-21 20:26                           ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-20 22:13               ` Rust kernel policy Paul E. McKenney
2025-02-21  5:19               ` Felipe Contreras
2025-02-21  5:36                 ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-21  5:59                   ` Felipe Contreras
2025-02-21  7:04                     ` Dave Airlie
2025-02-24 20:27                       ` Felipe Contreras
2025-02-24 20:37                     ` Boqun Feng
2025-02-26  2:42                       ` Felipe Contreras
2025-02-22 16:04               ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-22 17:10                 ` Ventura Jack
2025-02-22 17:34                   ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-23  2:08                 ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-19  5:53             ` Alexey Dobriyan
2025-02-19  5:59           ` Dave Airlie
2025-02-22 18:46             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-19 12:37           ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-20 11:26       ` Askar Safin
2025-02-20 12:33       ` vpotach
2025-02-19 18:52     ` Kees Cook
2025-02-19 19:08       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-19 19:17         ` Kees Cook
2025-02-19 20:27           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-02-19 20:46             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-19 20:52               ` Bart Van Assche
2025-02-19 21:07                 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-20 16:05                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-02-20  8:13                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-20  8:16                   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-20 11:57                   ` Fiona Behrens
2025-02-20 14:07                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-21 10:19                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-22 12:10                         ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-03-04 11:17                       ` Fiona Behrens
2025-03-04 17:48                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-20  9:55                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2025-02-19 19:33       ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20  6:32         ` Alexey Dobriyan
2025-02-20  6:53           ` Greg KH
2025-02-20  8:44             ` Alexey Dobriyan
2025-02-20 13:53             ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-20 16:04             ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-02-20 12:01           ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 12:13             ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-02-20 23:42         ` Miguel Ojeda [this message]
2025-02-22 15:21           ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-20  6:42     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-20 23:44       ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-21 15:24         ` Simona Vetter
2025-02-22 12:10           ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-26 13:17           ` Fiona Behrens
2025-02-21  0:39       ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-21 12:16         ` Danilo Krummrich
2025-02-21 15:59           ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-23 18:03           ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-23 18:31             ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-26 16:05               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-02-26 19:32                 ` Linus Torvalds
2025-02-19  8:05   ` Dan Carpenter
2025-02-19 14:14     ` James Bottomley
2025-02-19 14:30       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2025-02-19 14:46       ` Martin K. Petersen
2025-02-19 14:51         ` Bartosz Golaszewski
2025-02-19 15:15         ` James Bottomley
2025-02-19 15:33           ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-19 15:45             ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-19 15:46             ` James Bottomley
2025-02-19 15:56               ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-19 16:07                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-19 16:15                   ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-19 16:32                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2025-02-19 16:34                       ` Willy Tarreau
2025-02-19 16:33                     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-19 16:47                       ` Andrew Lunn
2025-02-19 18:22                       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2025-02-20  6:26                       ` Alexey Dobriyan
2025-02-20 15:37                         ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-19 17:00           ` Martin K. Petersen
2025-02-19 15:13       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-02-19 14:05   ` James Bottomley
2025-02-19 15:08     ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19 16:03       ` James Bottomley
2025-02-19 16:44         ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-19 17:06           ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-02-20 23:40             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-22 15:03             ` Kent Overstreet
2025-02-20 16:03           ` James Bottomley
2025-02-20 23:47             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-02-20  6:48         ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-02-20 12:56           ` James Bottomley

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