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[66.111.4.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jo5-20020a170906f6c500b009786c8249d6sm10457304ejb.175.2023.08.17.10.01.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FE5327C0054; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:01:26 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedviedrudduuddguddtkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvvefukfhfgggtuggjsehttdertddttddvnecuhfhrohhmpeeuohhq uhhnucfhvghnghcuoegsohhquhhnrdhfvghnghesghhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrf grthhtvghrnhephfetvdfgtdeukedvkeeiteeiteejieehvdetheduudejvdektdekfeeg vddvhedtnecuffhomhgrihhnpehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegsohhquhhnodhmvghsmhhtphgruhht hhhpvghrshhonhgrlhhithihqdeiledvgeehtdeigedqudejjeekheehhedvqdgsohhquh hnrdhfvghngheppehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmsehfihigmhgvrdhnrghmvg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iad51458e:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 17 Aug 2023 13:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:01:08 -0700 From: Boqun Feng To: Jakub Kicinski Cc: Michele Dalle Rive , Andrew Lunn , Greg KH , Miguel Ojeda , Alex Gaynor , Wedson Almeida Filho , "David S. Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Paolo Abeni , Gary Guo , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rn?= Roy Baron , Benno Lossin , Alice Ryhl , Davide Rovelli , rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, patches@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/7] Rust Socket abstractions Message-ID: References: <20230814092302.1903203-1-dallerivemichele@gmail.com> <2023081411-apache-tubeless-7bb3@gregkh> <0e91e3be-abbb-4bf7-be05-ba75c7522736@lunn.ch> <20230817084848.4871fc23@kernel.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20230817084848.4871fc23@kernel.org> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on lindbergh.monkeyblade.net On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 08:48:48AM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:53:03 +0200 Michele Dalle Rive wrote: > > in the last few days, I had the opportunity to discuss with some people from > > the RustForLinux community. > > > > I apologize for not being clear: the goal of these APIs was to give some > > network support to, in particular, out-of-tree modules; they were not meant to > > be used by a specific module that was planned to get upstreamed as well. > > The idea behind this patch is that, as of now, Rust is not a viable option for > > any OOT module that requires even the highest-level network support. > > > > I am wondering whether the `net` subsystem is interested in reviewing, giving > > feedback and eventually accepting code that is currently OOT-only. > > This is a bit concerning. You can white out Rust in that and plonk in > some corporate backed project people tried to cram into the kernel > without understanding the community aspects. I'm not saying it's > the same but the tone reads the same. > > "The `net` subsystem" have given "the RustForLinux community" clear > guidance on what a good integration starting point is. And now someone > else from Rust comes in and talk about supporting OOT modules. > > I thought the Rust was just shaking up the languages we use, not the > fundamentals on how this project operates :| I want to make it clear that Rust is not a way to get anyone a special pass for OOT support. That's never the intention of people in RUST maintainer entries. Here Michele did a good job on honestly sharing the context of the work. After the patchset sent, there was a discusion in Rust-for-Linux zulip about why a in-tree user is needed for review (and merge), and how people who are interested in networking could work with netdev on finding useful in-tree users and correct abstraction/bindings. I personally didn't sense anyone trying to undermining the Linux kernel development. Please understand that "the RustForLinux community" cannot control everyone's mind to make them aware of Linux kernel's contribution policy, but surely there is no execuse not reading: https://docs.kernel.org/process/development-process.html before contribution. Regards, Boqun