From: Oliver Mangold <oliver.mangold@pm.me>
To: Benno Lossin <lossin@kernel.org>
Cc: "Miguel Ojeda" <ojeda@kernel.org>,
"Alex Gaynor" <alex.gaynor@gmail.com>,
"Boqun Feng" <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
"Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
"Björn Roy Baron" <bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com>,
"Andreas Hindborg" <a.hindborg@kernel.org>,
"Alice Ryhl" <aliceryhl@google.com>,
"Trevor Gross" <tmgross@umich.edu>,
"Asahi Lina" <lina+kernel@asahilina.net>,
rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v11 1/4] rust: types: Add Ownable/Owned types
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2025 08:31:28 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <aNT92mzGsXfOsg2j@mango> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DB1IPFNLFDWV.2V5O73DOB2RV6@kernel.org>
Hi,
I finally found time to seriously work on completing this.
There a few questions that turned up for me, though.
On 250702 1303, Benno Lossin wrote:
>
> We shouldn't call this a reference. Also we should start the first
> paragraph with how this trait enables the usage of `Owned<Self>`.
Did you come up with any suggesting what to call it? `Owned<T>` holds a
pointer to `T`. C++ would call it a smart pointer, but I guess that's also
not a good name in Rust.
>
> > +///
> > +/// # Safety
> > +///
> > +/// Implementers must ensure that:
> > +/// - The [`release()`](Ownable::release) method leaves the underlying object in a state which the
> > +/// kernel expects after ownership has been relinquished (i.e. no dangling references in the
> > +/// kernel is case it frees the object, etc.).
>
> This invariant sounds weird to me. It's vague "a state which the kernel
> expects" and difficult to use (what needs this invariant?).
The whole matter of what exactly are the safety conditions here is a bit
confusing, I find:
- That the passed `T` is (and stays) valid is a requirement on
`Owned::from_raw`.
- That `Ownable::release()` is called with a live and unused `T` is a
requirement for that function call.
I understand things like this then, that implementing `Ownable` is unsafe
because `Owned<T>::drop()` calls the unsafe `T::release()`.
So the requirement is basically:
- it is safe to call `T::release()` _once_ on a `T` stored on an `Owned<T>`
if the `Owned<T>` isn't used anymore afterwards.
Not sure how to phrase that in a non-confusing way.
I went with this now:
"Implementers must ensure that the [`release()`](Self::release) function
frees the underlying object in the correct way for a valid, owned object
of this type."
> Maybe we should give `Ownable` the task to document the exact ownership
> semantics of `T`?
> > +pub struct Owned<T: Ownable> {
> > + ptr: NonNull<T>,
> > + _p: PhantomData<T>,
> > +}
> > +
> > +// SAFETY: It is safe to send `Owned<T>` to another thread when the underlying `T` is `Send` because
> > +// it effectively means sending a `&mut T` (which is safe because `T` is `Send`).
>
> How does this amount to sending a `&mut T`?
Right, good point. I have to guess, but likely the reasoning was, that
Owned<T> is a wrapper around `*T` and has exclusive access, so somehow
equivalent to `&mut T`.
> I guess this also needs to be guaranteed by `Owned::from_raw`... ah the
> list grows...
>
> I'll try to come up with something to simplify this design a bit wrt the
> safety docs.
I added "`ptr` points to a valid instance of `T`" to the safety
requirements of `Owned::from_raw`. I think this should imply such things,
because a valid instance of `T` clearly has to be Send/Sync, if it is
implemented for the type `T`, no?
> > +unsafe impl<T: Ownable + Send> Send for Owned<T> {}
> > +
> > +// SAFETY: It is safe to send `&Owned<T>` to another thread when the underlying `T` is `Sync`
> > +// because it effectively means sharing `&T` (which is safe because `T` is `Sync`).
>
> Same here.
Isn't it okay here? All you can do with an `&Owned<T>` is to obtain a `&T`
from it.
Best regards,
Oliver
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2025-09-25 8:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <OYpTDi4YYXiWvLG3nO_8_WKsgOl9KOpun9l3a34m0jza6nmEWDCLTldSwCfZ2PRRprjXqGmrgSL2JN8rPOQH8Q==@protonmail.internalid>
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 0/4] New trait OwnableRefCounted for ARef<->Owned conversion Oliver Mangold
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 1/4] rust: types: Add Ownable/Owned types Oliver Mangold
2025-07-02 11:03 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 6:58 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07 9:23 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 9:56 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-08 10:16 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-07-08 13:06 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 18:30 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 19:18 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-09 8:53 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-09 9:11 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 13:22 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 14:53 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 15:00 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 12:26 ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-09-25 8:31 ` Oliver Mangold [this message]
2025-08-18 12:46 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-18 13:04 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-18 22:27 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19 6:04 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-19 8:26 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19 8:45 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-19 9:00 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19 17:15 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-20 10:48 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19 8:53 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19 17:13 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19 18:28 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-20 6:02 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-20 7:41 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-20 7:43 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-20 10:51 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 2/4] rust: Split `AlwaysRefCounted` into two traits Oliver Mangold
2025-06-19 3:15 ` kernel test robot
2025-07-02 11:23 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 7:42 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07 9:27 ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 3/4] rust: Add missing SAFETY documentation for `ARef` example Oliver Mangold
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 4/4] rust: Add `OwnableRefCounted` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-02 13:24 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 8:07 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07 9:33 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 11:12 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-07 11:47 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 13:21 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-07 15:39 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 13:15 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 14:50 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 15:35 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 9:36 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-08 13:42 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-05 17:23 ` [PATCH v11 0/4] New trait OwnableRefCounted for ARef<->Owned conversion Danilo Krummrich
2025-08-06 5:56 ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-15 10:12 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-18 5:59 ` Oliver Mangold
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=aNT92mzGsXfOsg2j@mango \
--to=oliver.mangold@pm.me \
--cc=a.hindborg@kernel.org \
--cc=alex.gaynor@gmail.com \
--cc=aliceryhl@google.com \
--cc=bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com \
--cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
--cc=gary@garyguo.net \
--cc=lina+kernel@asahilina.net \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=lossin@kernel.org \
--cc=ojeda@kernel.org \
--cc=rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=tmgross@umich.edu \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).