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From: Oliver Mangold <oliver.mangold@pm.me>
To: Benno Lossin <lossin@kernel.org>
Cc: "Miguel Ojeda" <ojeda@kernel.org>,
	"Alex Gaynor" <alex.gaynor@gmail.com>,
	"Boqun Feng" <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	"Gary Guo" <gary@garyguo.net>,
	"Björn Roy Baron" <bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com>,
	"Andreas Hindborg" <a.hindborg@kernel.org>,
	"Alice Ryhl" <aliceryhl@google.com>,
	"Trevor Gross" <tmgross@umich.edu>,
	"Asahi Lina" <lina+kernel@asahilina.net>,
	rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v11 1/4] rust: types: Add Ownable/Owned types
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2025 08:31:28 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aNT92mzGsXfOsg2j@mango> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <DB1IPFNLFDWV.2V5O73DOB2RV6@kernel.org>

Hi,

I finally found time to seriously work on completing this.

There a few questions that turned up for me, though.

On 250702 1303, Benno Lossin wrote:
> 
> We shouldn't call this a reference. Also we should start the first
> paragraph with how this trait enables the usage of `Owned<Self>`.

Did you come up with any  suggesting what to call it? `Owned<T>` holds a
pointer to `T`. C++ would call it a smart pointer, but I guess that's also
not a good name in Rust.

> 
> > +///
> > +/// # Safety
> > +///
> > +/// Implementers must ensure that:
> > +/// - The [`release()`](Ownable::release) method leaves the underlying object in a state which the
> > +///   kernel expects after ownership has been relinquished (i.e. no dangling references in the
> > +///   kernel is case it frees the object, etc.).
> 
> This invariant sounds weird to me. It's vague "a state which the kernel
> expects" and difficult to use (what needs this invariant?).

The whole matter of what exactly are the safety conditions here is a bit
confusing, I find:

- That the passed `T` is (and stays) valid is a requirement on
  `Owned::from_raw`.
- That `Ownable::release()` is called with a live and unused `T` is a
  requirement for that function call.

I understand things like this then, that implementing `Ownable` is unsafe
because `Owned<T>::drop()` calls the unsafe `T::release()`.

So the requirement is basically:

- it is safe to call `T::release()` _once_ on a `T` stored on an `Owned<T>`
  if the `Owned<T>` isn't used anymore afterwards.

Not sure how to phrase that in a non-confusing way.

I went with this now:

"Implementers must ensure that the [`release()`](Self::release) function
frees the underlying object in the correct way for a valid, owned object
of this type."

> Maybe we should give `Ownable` the task to document the exact ownership
> semantics of `T`?

> > +pub struct Owned<T: Ownable> {
> > +    ptr: NonNull<T>,
> > +    _p: PhantomData<T>,
> > +}
> > +
> > +// SAFETY: It is safe to send `Owned<T>` to another thread when the underlying `T` is `Send` because
> > +// it effectively means sending a `&mut T` (which is safe because `T` is `Send`).
> 
> How does this amount to sending a `&mut T`?

Right, good point. I have to guess, but likely the reasoning was, that
Owned<T> is a wrapper around `*T` and has exclusive access, so somehow
equivalent to `&mut T`.

> I guess this also needs to be guaranteed by `Owned::from_raw`... ah the
> list grows...
> 
> I'll try to come up with something to simplify this design a bit wrt the
> safety docs.

I added "`ptr` points to a valid instance of `T`" to the safety
requirements of `Owned::from_raw`. I think this should imply such things,
because a valid instance of `T` clearly has to be Send/Sync, if it is
implemented for the type `T`, no?

> > +unsafe impl<T: Ownable + Send> Send for Owned<T> {}
> > +
> > +// SAFETY: It is safe to send `&Owned<T>` to another thread when the underlying `T` is `Sync`
> > +// because it effectively means sharing `&T` (which is safe because `T` is `Sync`).
> 
> Same here.

Isn't it okay here? All you can do with an `&Owned<T>` is to obtain a `&T`
from it.

Best regards,

Oliver


  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-09-25  8:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <OYpTDi4YYXiWvLG3nO_8_WKsgOl9KOpun9l3a34m0jza6nmEWDCLTldSwCfZ2PRRprjXqGmrgSL2JN8rPOQH8Q==@protonmail.internalid>
2025-06-18 12:27 ` [PATCH v11 0/4] New trait OwnableRefCounted for ARef<->Owned conversion Oliver Mangold
2025-06-18 12:27   ` [PATCH v11 1/4] rust: types: Add Ownable/Owned types Oliver Mangold
2025-07-02 11:03     ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07  6:58       ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07  9:23         ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08  9:56           ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-08 10:16             ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-07-08 13:06               ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 18:30                 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 19:18                   ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-09  8:53                     ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-09  9:11                       ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 13:22               ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 14:53                 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 15:00             ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 12:26         ` Miguel Ojeda
2025-09-25  8:31       ` Oliver Mangold [this message]
2025-08-18 12:46     ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-18 13:04       ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-18 22:27         ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19  6:04           ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-19  8:26             ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19  8:45               ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-19  9:00                 ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19 17:15                   ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-20 10:48                     ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19  8:53               ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-19 17:13                 ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-19 18:28                   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-20  6:02                   ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-20  7:41                     ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-20  7:43                       ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-20 10:51                         ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-06-18 12:27   ` [PATCH v11 2/4] rust: Split `AlwaysRefCounted` into two traits Oliver Mangold
2025-06-19  3:15     ` kernel test robot
2025-07-02 11:23     ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07  7:42       ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07  9:27         ` Benno Lossin
2025-06-18 12:27   ` [PATCH v11 3/4] rust: Add missing SAFETY documentation for `ARef` example Oliver Mangold
2025-06-18 12:27   ` [PATCH v11 4/4] rust: Add `OwnableRefCounted` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-02 13:24     ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07  8:07       ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-07  9:33         ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 11:12           ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-07 11:47             ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-07 13:21               ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-07 15:39                 ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 13:15                   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08 14:50                     ` Benno Lossin
2025-07-08 15:35                       ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-07-08  9:36           ` Oliver Mangold
2025-07-08 13:42             ` Benno Lossin
2025-08-05 17:23   ` [PATCH v11 0/4] New trait OwnableRefCounted for ARef<->Owned conversion Danilo Krummrich
2025-08-06  5:56     ` Oliver Mangold
2025-08-15 10:12   ` Andreas Hindborg
2025-08-18  5:59     ` Oliver Mangold

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