From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:43:57 -0700 From: Sarah Sharp To: Theodore Ts'o Cc: Olivier Galibert , David Lang , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Willy Tarreau , stable , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Message-ID: <20130716224357.GK4994@xanatos> References: <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <1373926109.17876.221.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130715223615.GI15531@xanatos> <20130716211235.GG4994@xanatos> <20130716212704.GB9371@thunk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130716212704.GB9371@thunk.org> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 05:27:04PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > "Your code is crap" is considered unprofessional, while > > > "Let's leverage my fifth grade nephew's capabilities to assist you in > > > fixing the code" is perfectly professional, somehow. That's more > > > often than not an unacceptable attitude in europe. > > > > I *hate* both direct personal insults and indirect personal insults. > > Neither should be acceptable in our community. > > What is a "direct personal insult" can be in the eye of the beholder. > Personally, I don't consider "your code is crap" as a personal insult. > "You are an incompetent programmer for producing this crap" would be a > personal attack. > > Similarly, there is a difference between "That was an idiotic idea" > and "You are an idiot". > > Now, there are certainly more {diplomatic, politically correct, > choose-your-own-favorite-adjective} ways wording the description of a > particularly bad idea or piece of code. But is that a "personal > attack"? I don't think we disagree on this, Ted. I've stated that I view personal attacks and insults negatively, and I don't see an issue with pointing out that code is bad. I think you're agreeing with me on this. > Keep in mind that there are some cultures where even pointing out a > technical flaw in code might considered bringing deep shame on the > engineer and their company. So how sensitive people are to criticism > during an electronic exchange is always going to be highly culutrally > and personally variable. Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating their comments and tone towards individuals who are "sensitive". Others simply don't give a shit. So we need to figure out how to meet somewhere in the middle, in order to establish a baseline of civility. Sarah Sharp