Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-17T09:38:55Z

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Jiri Kosina wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2013, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
>
> > > > I think that it's hurting Linux and in particular it's hurting
> > > > attracting new talents.
> > >
> > > Then why do we have the largest # of developers than any other Open
> > > Source project?
> >
> > Because Linux is the most widely used kernel, it's everywhere from
> > embedded devices to supercomputers.
>
> And that's because ... ?
>
> Yes, because the community has been very open since its very beginning
> (and this is not "being open about why I hate you personally", but this is
> "being open about what I think about your code").

Being open about what I think about your code doesn't mean that I can
feel free to verbally attack you.

> Plus there is a *LOT* of humor and sarcasm in all that. Which just
> contributes to working on linux kernel being fun. I'd absolutely like to
> keep that spirit.
>
> If you guys now start telling others what is allowed and what is forbidden
> to say, you are going to destroy this completely.
>
> I don't want to be a part of a community where you have to read a legal
> code before you can speak without fear of being accused of verbal
> violence.
>
> This just doesn't fit into how people of my culture see the world; hence,
> I may even feel offended by Sarah's proposal (i.e. being very restrictive
> about what I am allowed to say), actually. I like openness, I like
> sarcasm, I like fun. Anyone who is trying to forbid this just doesn't fit
> into my culture.

We should be able to prevent verbal abuses without involving legal,
right?
Would a NETIQUETTE file be enough, or would you consider that "legal
code"?

> > > Honestly, I think LKML over the years has become more tame. Yeah, back
> > > in 2005 it was rather harsh, but I don't really see that anymore. I
> > > don't see the nasty flame wars going on. Everything seems to be focused
> > > more on the technical side, and there's really very little personal
> > > attacks out there. Sure, with 15,000 emails a month, you get a few. And
> > > Linus will get fed up and burst. But they are really few and far
> > > between. And sometimes, a Linus burst gets things moving along much
> > > faster than being "professional". You think ARM would have gotten their
> > > act together as quick as they did if Linus didn't curse them out and
> > > threaten to stop pulling their crap?
> >
> > I think there is a way to get the point across without cursing.
>
> Maybe there is, maybe there is not.
>
> I am not cursing in my e-mails, you are probably neither. Linus is. Others
> are.
>
> So what? He/they believe they achieves their goal through that mode of
> operation (and very often they indeed do), as so do we, through different
> means of communication.
>
> No need to change anything anywhere. Please let everyone express their
> feelings the way the believe it's best for achieving their goals, and do
> the same.

There is a very fine line between cursing and what people might perceive
as a personal attack.