From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 08:54:28 -0700 From: Sarah Sharp To: Theodore Ts'o , CAI Qian , Steven Rostedt , Thomas Gleixner , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar , Guenter Roeck , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Andrew Morton , stable , Darren Hart , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: Maybe it's time to shut this thread down (Was: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Message-ID: <20130718155428.GB5440@xanatos> References: <20130715184642.GE15531@xanatos> <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <1368728064.2419741.1374117402465.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> <1374119254.6458.220.camel@gandalf.local.home> <305037674.2433057.1374120078349.JavaMail.root@redhat.com> <20130718132327.GB30405@thunk.org> <20130718133008.GC30405@thunk.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130718133008.GC30405@thunk.org> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 09:30:08AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote: > The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago > was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed > in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to > face interactions, the quality of e-mail discussions can start to > become frayed. > > One of the reasons is that e-mail is just not as expressive a medium > as face-to-face conversations. As a result, when people feel that > they aren't being heard, because they aren't getting those critical > non-verbal cues, they start escalating. They start using stronger > words, such as F*CK. They start doing exactly what they claim to > abhor to their verbal opponents in the debate, which is describing > their fellow kernel developers using demeaning terms. They start > using loaded, and over-reaching words, like "abuse", which ultimately > ends up hurting their own case. > > I suspect this is happening because it's easy when a body feels that > their message of say, "could we please treat each other with more > respect", isn't getting heard, it's very easy and very tempting to > resort to "Linus is an AB-UUUUUUUU-SER!". Let's shift this discussion away from the terms "abuse" and "professionalism" to "respect" and "civility". I agree that calling Linus an abuser is not conducive to moving this conversation forward. I agree not to use f*ck in my emails anymore, and, as Ted suggests, we'll see how polite requests get handled. > May I make the polite suggestion (and we'll see how well polite > requests get honored via e-mail), that we take this discussion > off-line, and wait to try to discuss this in person at the Kernel > Summit? I concur. Let's discuss this at KS. Sarah Sharp