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[2603:6081:7b01:cbda:2ef0:5dff:fedb:a8ba]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h9sm3560741qkn.101.2022.01.21.07.31.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Jan 2022 07:31:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:31:26 -0500 From: Tom Rini To: Simon Glass Cc: Heinrich Schuchardt , Ilias Apalodimas , Daniel Schwierzeck , Dennis Gilmore , Steffen Jaeckel , Lukas Auer , Michal Simek , U-Boot Mailing List Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 30/31] bootstd: doc: Add documentation Message-ID: <20220121153126.GW7004@bill-the-cat> References: <20220119014315.1938157-1-sjg@chromium.org> <20220119014315.1938157-20-sjg@chromium.org> <28d88952-e1aa-46cd-fd60-ac52cd2ab43b@canonical.com> <20220121150850.GT7004@bill-the-cat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="93POaeCRlRW5//kc" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett X-BeenThere: u-boot@lists.denx.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: U-Boot discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Sender: "U-Boot" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.5 at phobos.denx.de X-Virus-Status: Clean --93POaeCRlRW5//kc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 08:20:17AM -0700, Simon Glass wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On Fri, 21 Jan 2022 at 08:08, Tom Rini wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 12:39:03PM +0100, Heinrich Schuchardt wrote: > > > On 1/19/22 02:43, Simon Glass wrote: [snip] > > > > +Introduction > > > > +------------ > > > > + > > > > +Standard boot provides a built-in way for U-Boot to automatically = boot > > > > +an Operating System without custom scripting and other customisati= on. It > > > > +introduces the following concepts: > > > > + > > > > + - bootdev - a device which can hold or access a distro (e.g. M= MC, Ethernet) > > > > + - bootmeth - a method to scan a bootdev to find bootflows (e.g.= distro boot) > > > > + - bootflow - a description of how to boot (provided by the dist= ro) > > > > + > > > > +For Linux, the distro (Linux distribution, e.g. Debian, Fedora) is= responsible > > > > +for creating a bootflow for each kernel combination that it wants = to offer. > > > > > > This gets it completely wrong. There is one standardized boot flow: U= EFI. > > > All major distros support this. U-Boot has to offer UEFI booting out = of the > > > box. > > > > I want to jump up and down and emphasize this part as well. While I > > believe our UEFI bootmgr is still missing the normal scan code, that's > > something that has been promised to be implemented. And that turns the > > bootcmd for platforms that just want to support modern off the shelf > > distros in to something fairly small. >=20 > Sigh... >=20 > UEFI is a bootflow in this model, one of many. If we don't support the > others, then U-Boot is not U-Boot anymore, it is just EFI Boot. No one is talking about removing anything else. But a major part of your motivation here seems to be "discovering what to boot where is a pain" and that's solved (or at least defined, I'm poking Ilias about the status of that off-list). And I want to emphasize discover. > If we get EFI bootmgr going, then are you saying you want to disable > everything else? Not at all. > You say 'major distros' but there are many that don't use it, > particularly in the embedded space. I'll go out on a limb and say that > the vast majority of embedded devices in the world don't use it. Are > you really saying we should drop support for everything else? Even the > distro stuff supports other options. I don't know about buildroot off-hand, but I've had OpenEmbedded spit out UEFI-compatible aarch64 images no problem. If you're talking about embedded Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora, that goes back up to "wants UEFI boot flow". Armbian is the biggest distro I know of off-hand that doesn't do UEFI boot for U-Boot targets and I would love to talk with someone there and find out why (but I guess it's all the 32bit platforms). But I'd also say the vast majority of embedded devices don't need the complexity you're adding here, but DO need the ability to implement A/B things as easily in U-Boot as they can in grub. And that in turn is because it's a pain to modify the default environment in U-Boot and easy to drop in another script for grub. --=20 Tom --93POaeCRlRW5//kc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAABCgAdFiEEGjx/cOCPqxcHgJu/FHw5/5Y0tywFAmHq0c4ACgkQFHw5/5Y0 tywC0Qv+MANpt3sM8BCkirGlP70Qm2HlTl5IT+qnDkTDYbHooeGoU0Ps+8BHyBA1 nQfxgBzdUt/lDb4/Gz9Wfvufr8V42NOOfGbpJsVdDnijKYFKt1/t93N8M1y0jYae sxzbiqx3/TyNf0Nq+yvsoWU63d43A3uoYECaeuYjwy2ksmeOGS0w5fj8rcj5uiS/ oxY+j60Pd0bVr92+1Ze9+t79meL2o29xoPSqnjGBrdrY/I5nZxSJZYLdiYdnpGz3 lQYpxKgg/zlq/zb+CZy/cmsBB/5ZKKqha3qXD9mjBbuHkVzLFjp9R7s2NjeTr3nF hYy3RfLk2twWRfqiMJrgC/R4IfS8KhxuMYstg9ypp0AGOY5kKFXEUrxuWpmRof6v 2Zpgs1jga+D3S5wU2Sjssa/0jWzbovgqXfXC8UTijH9MWFFAKEZgylq8Mgb4ypVs J6SanSO16mf27/dyJVUqhYWbzEjZouG1Bx2MIPKk8NX7pMAyobYfBgw2hpysQ5xu baY+RL/r =a9bc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --93POaeCRlRW5//kc--