[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Guys,

Now that I _finally_ have an ARM toolchain up and running (ELDK 5.2),
it's time to play, and for that, I need something to play with :)

I have a HP TouchPad which I've been compiling CyangenMod for (it has
it's own toolchain) and a Raspberry Pi which I have built U-Boot for
(using ELDK), but I don't have the necessary hardware for serial
console yet.

I'm looking for something:
 a) I can purchase locally (Australia)
 b) Is reasonably priced
 c) Has a mainline port of U-Boot already
 d) Is 'useful' (media player, NAS, firewall, machine that goes 'ping')
 e) Has lots of 'things' to play with (network, USB, video, SD/MMC,
SATA, LEDs, GPIO, Alphanumeric LCD) - Not all have to be currently
supported (actually, it would be great if some aren't so I can work on
adding them)

Any and all ideas appreciated

Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Jorgen Lundman]

Graeme Russ wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Now that I _finally_ have an ARM toolchain up and running (ELDK 5.2),
> it's time to play, and for that, I need something to play with :)
>
> I have a HP TouchPad which I've been compiling CyangenMod for (it has
> it's own toolchain) and a Raspberry Pi which I have built U-Boot for
> (using ELDK), but I don't have the necessary hardware for serial
> console yet.
>
> I'm looking for something:
>   a) I can purchase locally (Australia)
>   b) Is reasonably priced
>   c) Has a mainline port of U-Boot already
>   d) Is 'useful' (media player, NAS, firewall, machine that goes 'ping')
>   e) Has lots of 'things' to play with (network, USB, video, SD/MMC,
> SATA, LEDs, GPIO, Alphanumeric LCD) - Not all have to be currently
> supported (actually, it would be great if some aren't so I can work on
> adding them)

1)
I have a Cubox (http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox) which is quite 
decent for development, I don't know about support from the Company itself, 
as we don't hear from them often. Great for Linux work and similar 
development, but Android support is poor. Not ready to be a full mediaplayer.

I used this to do the ZFS port to ARM, and eventually uboot. Alas, not 
mainline port of u-boot. Ships with USB serial console.


2)
I have a Mele A2000 
(http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/04/04/mele-a2000-android-2-3-media-player-powered-by-allwinner-a10/) 
which fancier in the Android department (JB4.1 available) and have Linux 
images, but needs extra dongle for serial. Could "just about" be a 
mediaplayer for locally attached media (maybe) but once you add network 
play and a greater selection of codecs, it moves into "not ready to be a 
full mediaplayer".

Also not in mainline u-boot, but the u-boot available is less hacky.

Neither run XBMC enough to be useful.

The general "mood" of the embedded dev community seems to be, to me, to 
move away from these Companies, as the promised source releases has not 
been sufficient. The current interest seems to be AM.logic's dualcore 
board. 
(http://ao2.it/en/blog/2012/08/10/amlogic-aml8726-mx-linux-kernel-code-released)

The last paragraph is just my take on things. All coloured from the 
"mediaplayer" point of view, as that is currently what I am fiddling with.

Lund





-- 
Jorgen Lundman       | <lundman@lundman.net>
Unix Administrator   | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo    | +81 (0)90-5578-8500          (cell)
Japan                | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767          (home)

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Jorgen,

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Jorgen Lundman <lundman@lundman.net> wrote:
>
>
> 1)
> I have a Cubox (http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox) which is quite

Hmmm, too 'self contained' for what I'm after - The Raspberry Pi
already fills the spot this would

> 2)
> I have a Mele A2000
> (http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/04/04/mele-a2000-android-2-3-media-player-powered-by-allwinner-a10/)

This looks promising at ~ AU$100 with USB, SD/MMC, VGA, HDMI, SATA,
Ethernet, WiFi, Sound w/ Optical Out

> which fancier in the Android department (JB4.1 available) and have Linux
> images, but needs extra dongle for serial. Could "just about" be a
> mediaplayer for locally attached media (maybe) but once you add network play
> and a greater selection of codecs, it moves into "not ready to be a full
> mediaplayer".

How far off would it be? If I put a really trimmed down Linux xmbc, do
you think it could handle it?

> Also not in mainline u-boot, but the u-boot available is less hacky.

I've seen some comments on a few review sites mentioning U-Boot

> Neither run XBMC enough to be useful.

Oh :( - just how far off do you think?

> The general "mood" of the embedded dev community seems to be, to me, to move
> away from these Companies, as the promised source releases has not been
> sufficient. The current interest seems to be AM.logic's dualcore board.
> (http://ao2.it/en/blog/2012/08/10/amlogic-aml8726-mx-linux-kernel-code-released)

Seems to be more tablet oriented - can't find any 'media players' based on this

Thanks for the info

Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Jorgen,

I've had a really good poke around looking into the Mele A2000. This
looks to have really impressive specifications and the manufacturer
apparently has a strong open source agenda.

I'm pretty sure I'll get one of these. There will probably be even
more capable ARM based media players in the next few years (like the
Trim-Slice which looks gorgeous), but what I'll do is relegate the
A2000 to a disk-less workstation once I get my thunking Linux home
server up and running :)

So the next decision is whether or not to buy one just with the debug
board (~US$95 delivered), or get one with the debug board and F10
remote ($US125 delivered) from Aliexpress


Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Jorgen Lundman]

There was promise between XBMC and Allwinner for a bit, which looked good 
for everyone.

Then there was a delay, and when files were delivered they were binary 
identical to old files, so that looked bad.

XBMC got a bit pissy, and decided to stop work on Allwinner.

Yesterday, Allwinner explained about #ifdef around new code, and missed the 
compile time flag, hence wrong version, promised of new files soon.

XBMC uncertain, everyone waiting to see if we get files.

So, your average teenage TV sitcom I suppose. :)


You can read about it here: 
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=126995&page=85


My own findings are here:

http://lundman.net/wiki/index.php/MeLe_A2000


I got mine from cubie's at aliexpress, the shipping took forever, but all 
arrived as expected. The debug board comes with pinouts, so real easy install.

The F10 remote I bought afterwards and I think is real neat. It works just 
about as well as Wiimotes, but works are regular mouse/keyboard (with 
Windows, OSX support). So I currently use it with straight Win7 running 
XBMC. I think F10 is worth getting, even if you don't end up using the mele.

At the moment though, my Mele is doing nothing (just waiting for wip to 
mature). I believe latest XBMC can play SD content. Current lack of audio 
support is a concern.

Hardware that actually supported XBMC ARM port, are the Pivos players 
http://www.pivosgroup.com/  I don't personally have one as they (didn't) 
sell to Japan. I tried to get one for the support they did though.

Lund



Graeme Russ wrote:
> Hi Jorgen,
>
> I've had a really good poke around looking into the Mele A2000. This
> looks to have really impressive specifications and the manufacturer
> apparently has a strong open source agenda.
>
> I'm pretty sure I'll get one of these. There will probably be even
> more capable ARM based media players in the next few years (like the
> Trim-Slice which looks gorgeous), but what I'll do is relegate the
> A2000 to a disk-less workstation once I get my thunking Linux home
> server up and running :)
>
> So the next decision is whether or not to buy one just with the debug
> board (~US$95 delivered), or get one with the debug board and F10
> remote ($US125 delivered) from Aliexpress
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Graeme
>

-- 
Jorgen Lundman       | <lundman@lundman.net>
Unix Administrator   | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo    | +81 (0)90-5578-8500          (cell)
Japan                | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767          (home)

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Karl O. Pinc]

On 08/21/2012 01:28:51 AM, Jorgen Lundman wrote:

> At the moment though, my Mele is doing nothing (just waiting for wip
> to 
> mature). I believe latest XBMC can play SD content. Current lack of
> audio 
> support is a concern.

I'm interested in using some of the Mele boxes instead of video 
cards with xdmx to get multihead video.  Seems cheaper(ish), 
cooler and less noisy.

Haven't tried it.



Karl <kop@meme.com>
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                 -- Robert A. Heinlein

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Stefan Roese]

Hi Graeme,

On 08/21/2012 05:12 AM, Graeme Russ wrote:
>> 2)
>> I have a Mele A2000
>> (http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/04/04/mele-a2000-android-2-3-media-player-powered-by-allwinner-a10/)
> 
> This looks promising at ~ AU$100 with USB, SD/MMC, VGA, HDMI, SATA,
> Ethernet, WiFi, Sound w/ Optical Out
> 
>> which fancier in the Android department (JB4.1 available) and have Linux
>> images, but needs extra dongle for serial. Could "just about" be a
>> mediaplayer for locally attached media (maybe) but once you add network play
>> and a greater selection of codecs, it moves into "not ready to be a full
>> mediaplayer".
> 
> How far off would it be? If I put a really trimmed down Linux xmbc, do
> you think it could handle it?
> 
>> Also not in mainline u-boot, but the u-boot available is less hacky.
> 
> I've seen some comments on a few review sites mentioning U-Boot
> 
>> Neither run XBMC enough to be useful.
> 
> Oh :( - just how far off do you think?

See Jorgen's mail on this. I also followed this XBMC thread closely, as
I'm looking for a low-power ARM box to replace my Atom based HTPC
running XBMC. Fortunately I waited with buying an AllWinner device. My
interest is now also moving to AMLogic now (see below).

>> The general "mood" of the embedded dev community seems to be, to me, to move
>> away from these Companies, as the promised source releases has not been
>> sufficient. The current interest seems to be AM.logic's dualcore board.
>> (http://ao2.it/en/blog/2012/08/10/amlogic-aml8726-mx-linux-kernel-code-released)
> 
> Seems to be more tablet oriented - can't find any 'media players' based on this

There seem to be plenty. Check here for an overview:

http://www.j1nx.nl/xbmc-amlogic-8726-m-pivos-xios-an-initial-investigation/

Cheers,
Stefan

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Stefan,

On 08/21/2012 05:30 PM, Stefan Roese wrote:

[snip]

>>> The general "mood" of the embedded dev community seems to be, to me, to move
>>> away from these Companies, as the promised source releases has not been
>>> sufficient. The current interest seems to be AM.logic's dualcore board.
>>> (http://ao2.it/en/blog/2012/08/10/amlogic-aml8726-mx-linux-kernel-code-released)
>>
>> Seems to be more tablet oriented - can't find any 'media players' based on this
> 
> There seem to be plenty. Check here for an overview:
> 
> http://www.j1nx.nl/xbmc-amlogic-8726-m-pivos-xios-an-initial-investigation/

Thanks for the link. Looks like it uses the same GPU (Mali 400) as the
AllWinner A10

The Geniatech Enjoy TV series looks pretty good, particularly the ATV1000:

http://geniatech.com/pa/atv1000.asp

I can get an ATV1000 for ~AU$135 with:
 - 800MHz Cortex A9 (not sure if it's the dual-core AML8726-MX or the
   single core AML8726-M1)
 - A remote
 - 2x external USB
 - A nicer looking case (going by the photos)
 - No SATA connection
 - Better FOSS support (?)

I can get a Mele A2000 for ~AU$100 with:
 - 1GHz Cortex A8 Allwinner A10
 - No Remote
 - 3x External USB
 - A not so nice looking case
 - SATA
 - Worse FOSS support (?)

Oh the agony :(

Considering it will probably be turned into a disk-less Linux workstation
in a couple of years, I'm leaning towards the ATV1000 (no need for SATA)

Thoughts?

Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Stefan Roese]

Hi Graeme,

On 08/21/2012 02:29 PM, Graeme Russ wrote:
>> http://www.j1nx.nl/xbmc-amlogic-8726-m-pivos-xios-an-initial-investigation/
> 
> Thanks for the link. Looks like it uses the same GPU (Mali 400) as the
> AllWinner A10
> 
> The Geniatech Enjoy TV series looks pretty good, particularly the ATV1000:
> 
> http://geniatech.com/pa/atv1000.asp
> 
> I can get an ATV1000 for ~AU$135 with:
>  - 800MHz Cortex A9 (not sure if it's the dual-core AML8726-MX or the
>    single core AML8726-M1)
>  - A remote
>  - 2x external USB
>  - A nicer looking case (going by the photos)
>  - No SATA connection
>  - Better FOSS support (?)
> 
> I can get a Mele A2000 for ~AU$100 with:
>  - 1GHz Cortex A8 Allwinner A10
>  - No Remote
>  - 3x External USB
>  - A not so nice looking case
>  - SATA
>  - Worse FOSS support (?)
> 
> Oh the agony :(
> 
> Considering it will probably be turned into a disk-less Linux workstation
> in a couple of years, I'm leaning towards the ATV1000 (no need for SATA)
> 
> Thoughts?

As mentioned before, my focus is on XBMC support. The AmLogic seems to
be more promising right now. I personally would go with a 1GiB board
(not sure if really needed). The ATV310B looks good:

http://www.geniatech.com/pa/atv310.asp

For ~ 120,- US$.

Cheers,
Stefan

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Stefan,

On Aug 22, 2012 5:24 PM, "Stefan Roese" <sr@denx.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Graeme,
>
> On 08/21/2012 02:29 PM, Graeme Russ wrote:
> >>
http://www.j1nx.nl/xbmc-amlogic-8726-m-pivos-xios-an-initial-investigation/
> >
> > Thanks for the link. Looks like it uses the same GPU (Mali 400) as the
> > AllWinner A10
> >
> > The Geniatech Enjoy TV series looks pretty good, particularly the
ATV1000:
> >
> > http://geniatech.com/pa/atv1000.asp
> >
> > I can get an ATV1000 for ~AU$135 with:
> >  - 800MHz Cortex A9 (not sure if it's the dual-core AML8726-MX or the
> >    single core AML8726-M1)
> >  - A remote
> >  - 2x external USB
> >  - A nicer looking case (going by the photos)
> >  - No SATA connection
> >  - Better FOSS support (?)
> >
> > I can get a Mele A2000 for ~AU$100 with:
> >  - 1GHz Cortex A8 Allwinner A10
> >  - No Remote
> >  - 3x External USB
> >  - A not so nice looking case
> >  - SATA
> >  - Worse FOSS support (?)
> >
> > Oh the agony :(
> >
> > Considering it will probably be turned into a disk-less Linux
workstation
> > in a couple of years, I'm leaning towards the ATV1000 (no need for SATA)
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> As mentioned before, my focus is on XBMC support. The AmLogic seems to
> be more promising right now. I personally would go with a 1GiB board
> (not sure if really needed). The ATV310B looks good:

I ended up ordering a Mele A2000 w/ Remote & Debug Adapter. It came back to
the fact that I was after a device to hack, not simply run XBMC. The Mele
devices look like they are more hackable and the native SATA gives me one
more part to play with :). And I think Allwinner will eventually come good
on the VPU libraries.

>
> http://www.geniatech.com/pa/atv310.asp
>
> For ~ 120,- US$.

Got the A2000 for AU$140 delivered

Thanks for all the advice,

Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Jason Cooper]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:37:32AM +1000, Graeme Russ wrote:
> I'm looking for something:
>  a) I can purchase locally (Australia)
>  b) Is reasonably priced
>  c) Has a mainline port of U-Boot already
>  d) Is 'useful' (media player, NAS, firewall, machine that goes 'ping')
>  e) Has lots of 'things' to play with (network, USB, video, SD/MMC,
> SATA, LEDs, GPIO, Alphanumeric LCD) - Not all have to be currently
> supported (actually, it would be great if some aren't so I can work on
> adding them)

Dreamplug [1], or the D2plug [2], or the CuBox [3].  The last two have
video and mainline support is a wip (Linux).  The first is already
supported in both and has a few more things which need converted to
devicetree.

[1] and [2] have a jtag adapter on the side, and the adpater can be
bought with the device [4].  [3] just needs a micro-usb cable and is
"unbrickable" even when replacing u-boot.  I have yet to test this. ;-)

[2] and [3] are Marvell's new line of SoCs, so armv7.  [1] is kirkwood,
and armv5te.

hth,

Jason.

[1] http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-dreamplugdetails.aspx
[2] http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/c-8-d2plug.aspx
[3] http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
[4] http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-28-jtag.aspx

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Jorgen Lundman]

> [1] and [2] have a jtag adapter on the side, and the adpater can be
> bought with the device [4].  [3] just needs a micro-usb cable and is
> "unbrickable" even when replacing u-boot.  I have yet to test this. ;-)
>

I gave that a whirl, by, uh, accident. But I could xmodem send the SPL over 
again to get it back, and reprogram the u-boot with the proper version 
again. (Using 'screen' and sx, minicom does not work).

So it does seem "unbrickable".

Lund

-- 
Jorgen Lundman       | <lundman@lundman.net>
Unix Administrator   | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo    | +81 (0)90-5578-8500          (cell)
Japan                | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767          (home)

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Back again :)

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Graeme Russ <graeme.russ@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for something:
>  a) I can purchase locally (Australia)
>  b) Is reasonably priced
>  c) Has a mainline port of U-Boot already
>  d) Is 'useful' (media player, NAS, firewall, machine that goes 'ping')
>  e) Has lots of 'things' to play with (network, USB, video, SD/MMC,
> SATA, LEDs, GPIO, Alphanumeric LCD) - Not all have to be currently
> supported (actually, it would be great if some aren't so I can work on
> adding them)

I should also mention that pre-built support for Linux would be a plus
but not 100% mandatory (ultimately I will be building the entire Linux
system from scratch anyway). Android support won't really add anything
(I have my TouchPad for that)

I would like to play with IPL/SPL so access to boot code at the lowest
possible level (SDRAM init etc) is preferable.

Support for a 'cheap' JTAG board would be a big plus (GuruPlug is only
US$40, whereas a BDI3000 is US$2,500 from what I can tell)

Thanks,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Jason Cooper]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +1000, Graeme Russ wrote:
> Support for a 'cheap' JTAG board would be a big plus (GuruPlug is only
> US$40, whereas a BDI3000 is US$2,500 from what I can tell)

You can also look at the Bus Pirate (~$35US) [1], the Flyswatter
(~$50US) [2], and the Flyswatter 2 (~$90US) [3].

The Bus Pirate is *a*lot* more than a jtag.  

hth,

Jason.

[1] http://dangerousprototypes.com/bus-pirate-manual/
[2]
http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16134&cat=249&page=1
[3]
http://www.tincantools.com/product.php?productid=16153&cat=249&page=2

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Graeme Russ]

Hi Jason,

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Jason Cooper <u-boot@lakedaemon.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +1000, Graeme Russ wrote:
>> Support for a 'cheap' JTAG board would be a big plus (GuruPlug is only
>> US$40, whereas a BDI3000 is US$2,500 from what I can tell)
>
> You can also look at the Bus Pirate (~$35US) [1], the Flyswatter
> (~$50US) [2], and the Flyswatter 2 (~$90US) [3].
>
> The Bus Pirate is *a*lot* more than a jtag.

So why would you pay $2,500 for a BDI? Is it simply because the BDI is
a single tool that can connect to a wider range of devices (PowerPC,
MIPS, XScale) and has Ethernet connectivity)

Regards,

Graeme

[U-Boot] Seeking ARM development platform suggestions

[Andreas Bießmann]

Dear Graeme Russ,

On 21.08.12 03:33, Graeme Russ wrote:
> Hi Jason,
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Jason Cooper <u-boot@lakedaemon.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:13:05AM +1000, Graeme Russ wrote:
>>> Support for a 'cheap' JTAG board would be a big plus (GuruPlug is only
>>> US$40, whereas a BDI3000 is US$2,500 from what I can tell)
>>
>> You can also look at the Bus Pirate (~$35US) [1], the Flyswatter
>> (~$50US) [2], and the Flyswatter 2 (~$90US) [3].
>>
>> The Bus Pirate is *a*lot* more than a jtag.
> 
> So why would you pay $2,500 for a BDI? Is it simply because the BDI is
> a single tool that can connect to a wider range of devices (PowerPC,
> MIPS, XScale) and has Ethernet connectivity)

another plus is that BDI speaks gdb.
For ARM openocd plus a jtag dongle (cheap FTDI based) is a really good
solution, unfortunately other arches are not so well supported. But I
had problematic cases where openocd did not work correctly in the past
(especially working with armv7 somewhere between 0.4 and 0.5). I think
these cases are sorted out but you may get other problems. Openocd
however is open source, so you just can fix it ;)

Best regards

Andreas Bie?mann