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From: Detlev Zundel <dzu@denx.de>
To: u-boot@lists.denx.de
Subject: [U-Boot] U-book and GPLv3? (fwd)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:10:05 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2ljnf6vs2.fsf@ohwell.denx.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090626072224.GC16148@game.jcrosoft.org> (Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD's message of "Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:22:24 +0200")

Hi Jean-Christophe,

> On 00:50 Fri 26 Jun     , Richard Stallman wrote:
>>     If I use a GPLv3 bootloader in a medical tool, a car, Point of payment terminal,
>>     Military System, etc... it is a grave security flaw.
>>     I'm not sure that you will be very happy if someone can modify the Firmware
>>     freely. As you may loose money to be killed and at the extrem kill millions
>>     of people.
>> 
>> There is no need to exaggerate.  Millions of people modify cars
>> physically, and it is not a dangerous practice.
> It is.
>> 
>> If you buy a car, or a medical tool for my own use, you deserve to be able
>> to change the software in it, just as you can change it physically.
>
> Certanly not when you use your car your are also on the public domain (road)
> so it your car have a system faillure you can kill yourself and kill other
> people. Remember that you are not allow to modify your car as your wish there
> is law that will forbiden you to do this in a lot' of country.

It seems that you have very strong interests on the software side, which
need to be considered separately, but here you are really distorting
actual reality.  As this example is likely best known to everybody, I'll
comment on this one - it seems currently too much work without a
prospect of any gain to comment on everything.

Of course you can modify your own car.  This is *not* forbidden - why do
you claim such a thing?  Heck you can even attach a rocket to it *as
long* as you don't use the car on public streets.  If you do, all you
got to do is to get your modifications approved.  No big deal, go to a
<insert favorite car brand here> meeting and look at the cars there.

I can even build my own car from scratch and get it certified.  

Although I wanted to restrict myself to cars - it's the same with
planes.  It is common practice for example to modify glider planes
(increasing wing span for example to be more competitive today) for
which the manufacturer even *does not exist* any more today.  Admittedly
this is some work to get it certified, but it is doable by a private
person for sure, I personally know some.

Actually I can even build my own *plane* and still get it certified
(this is not uncommon).

Cheers
  Detlev

-- 
Those who would trade safety for freedom deserve neither.
           -- Thomas Jefferson
--
DENX Software Engineering GmbH,      MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel
HRB 165235 Munich,  Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany
Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-40 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: dzu at denx.de

  reply	other threads:[~2009-06-26 12:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 174+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <E1MHHUe-00046l-SR@fencepost.gnu.org>
2009-06-18 14:51 ` [U-Boot] U-book and GPLv3? (fwd) Wolfgang Denk
2009-06-18 15:42   ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-18 15:46   ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-18 15:56     ` Jon Smirl
2009-06-19  8:30       ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-19  0:46   ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-06-19 22:18     ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-23 16:33       ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-23 19:26         ` Scott Wood
2009-06-23 19:41           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-23 21:14             ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-24  9:17               ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 14:16                 ` Matthew Lear
2009-06-24 16:45                   ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 17:41                     ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 11:22                       ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 13:56                         ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 14:11                           ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25  0:59                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25  9:55                     ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-25 23:29                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-26  0:17                         ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-27 20:07                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-26  6:11                         ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-25 14:00                     ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 15:38                       ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-25 16:07                         ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-06-25 16:39                           ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-25 19:10                             ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-06-25 19:38                               ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-25 20:22                                 ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-06-25 20:45                                   ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-25 21:44                                     ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-06-25 22:11                                       ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-26  9:03                                         ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-06-26  4:50                         ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-26 21:35                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25  0:59               ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25 21:24                 ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-26  4:50                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-26  7:22                     ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-26 12:10                       ` Detlev Zundel [this message]
2009-06-27  9:01                         ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-28 20:28                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-29  7:05                             ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-27  9:03                         ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-26 21:35                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-27 19:05                         ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-28 20:28                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-24  9:12             ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 11:43               ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-24 13:17                 ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 14:38                   ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-24 16:34                     ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 16:57                       ` Scott Wood
2009-06-25 12:30                         ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25 19:40                           ` Scott Wood
2009-06-24 17:32                       ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 11:04                         ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 13:53                           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 14:20                             ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 14:37                               ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-26  8:25                                 ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-26 13:41                                   ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-26 13:56                                     ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-26 14:17                                       ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-26 15:11                                         ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-26 16:23                                           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 14:41                               ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 18:37                                 ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-26  8:21                                   ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-26 13:48                                     ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-29 15:17                                 ` Robin Getz
2009-06-29 18:48                                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-29 19:45                                     ` Robin Getz
2009-06-30 14:04                                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 17:14                                         ` Robin Getz
2009-06-30 19:12                                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 22:29                                             ` Robin Getz
2009-07-01 11:46                                               ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-01 13:11                                                 ` Graeme Russ
2009-07-01 13:55                                                   ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-07-01 14:51                                                 ` Robin Getz
2009-07-02  8:35                                                   ` Pink Boy
2009-07-02 13:56                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-02 14:59                                                     ` Robin Getz
2009-07-02 16:11                                                       ` Larry Johnson
2009-07-02 17:12                                                         ` Robin Getz
2009-07-02 22:34                                                           ` Pink Boy
2009-07-02 17:21                                                       ` Jean-Christian de Rivaz
2009-07-03 13:48                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-01  5:58                                             ` Thomas Dörfler
2009-07-02 13:56                                               ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-02 14:44                                                 ` Jon Smirl
2009-07-02 16:06                                                   ` Mike Frysinger
2009-07-03 13:47                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-03 15:51                                                     ` [U-Boot] U-boot " Wolfgang Wegner
2009-07-03 22:52                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-04  0:29                                                     ` [U-Boot] U-book " Jon Smirl
2009-07-06 18:04                                                     ` Scott Wood
2009-06-30 19:12                                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 21:01                                             ` Robin Getz
2009-07-01 11:45                                               ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-01 14:27                                                 ` Robin Getz
2009-07-02 13:56                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 19:12                                           ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 22:46                                             ` Robin Getz
2009-07-01 11:45                                               ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25 23:29                         ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-26  0:02                           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-27 20:07                             ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-28 18:48                               ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25  0:59                 ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-25  3:35                   ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-25 16:48                     ` Chris Morgan
2009-06-25 19:25                       ` Scott Wood
2009-06-24  9:09           ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 16:24             ` Scott Wood
2009-06-24 16:36               ` Jon Smirl
2009-06-24 16:56                 ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-24 19:16                   ` Jon Smirl
2009-06-25 11:25                     ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 10:48               ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25  0:58             ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-24 17:16         ` Grant Likely
2009-06-25  0:59         ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]   ` <fa686aa40906181853g3ce4ebeagc7b7cc93010a6a9c@mail.gmail.com>
2009-06-19  1:53     ` Grant Likely
2009-06-19  8:40   ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-25 14:11     ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-27 20:18       ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2009-06-27 22:50         ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-29 14:56           ` Arno Fischer
2009-06-29 15:27             ` Frank Svendsbøe
2009-06-29 16:00               ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-29 16:33               ` Detlev Zundel
2009-07-07 11:51       ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2009-07-07 13:12         ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-07 13:50           ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2009-07-07 14:43             ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-07 15:18               ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2009-07-07 15:28               ` Jon Smirl
2009-07-07 16:26                 ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-06-25 18:46   ` Thomas Doerfler
2009-06-25 18:52     ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-06-25 19:04     ` Mike Frysinger
2009-06-30  2:03   ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-06-30 14:05     ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 14:16       ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-06-30 14:30         ` Detlev Zundel
2009-06-30 15:11       ` Eric Nelson
2009-06-30 19:12         ` Richard Stallman
2009-06-30 17:07     ` Scott Wood
2009-07-01  0:01     ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-07-06 10:55   ` [U-Boot] U-book and GPLv3? Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-06 12:41     ` Jon Smirl
2009-07-06 14:40       ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-06 16:06       ` ksi at koi8.net
2009-07-07 10:05       ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-07 16:50         ` Scott Wood
2009-07-06 15:44     ` Jerry Van Baren
2009-07-06 18:46       ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-07 19:16         ` Remy Bohmer
2009-07-07 21:17           ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-07 10:05       ` Richard Stallman
2009-07-07 13:24     ` Robin Getz
2009-07-07 20:07     ` Remy Bohmer
2009-07-07 21:24       ` Wolfgang Denk
2009-07-09 16:10     ` Kumar Gala
2009-07-09 17:54       ` Mike Frysinger
2009-07-09 18:01         ` Kumar Gala
2009-07-09 19:49         ` Remy Bohmer
2009-07-09 20:26           ` Mike Frysinger
2009-07-10 12:49           ` Robert Schwebel
2009-07-09 20:04       ` Wolfgang Denk

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