From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from ws5-mx01.kavi.com (ws5-mx01.kavi.com [34.193.7.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51AE9EB64DA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:25:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.242]) by ws5-mx01.kavi.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F9094AAD for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:25:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FAC986430 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:25:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org (host09.ws5.connectedcommunity.org [10.110.1.97]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with QMQP id 2295D986397; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:25:45 +0000 (UTC) Mailing-List: contact virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org; run by ezmlm List-ID: Sender: Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Received: from lists.oasis-open.org (oasis-open.org [10.110.1.242]) by lists.oasis-open.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F28898639E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:25:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at kavi.com X-MC-Unique: 9RcjTN8tO5WdNt91JmRMVQ-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1687184742; x=1689776742; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=f0MhPpftw5piCr2ASxb1OYE83bFaKqjYcppSqiKo8rA=; b=EdbdGXfTlVc7Eo0TOeueR2eio0aYz4ZSbk6nnDPXIpz9tc7yu8PgM5+jA5bcZ66uMM d/GFivd24ABV0Ia34D9wX1//1oTZTKntPp5qlTmtMfZaWLZOPnDb/zLTsj7rAO5/Gesm t5qg3O2u2sucG5aQwcbSZ6otO3WAATQkKyzbnm86TOl8eHVFeZIBNi5T8NNfHPh3cy5B eWrhhlaa7KQ8DRvbWLB8zAd4zr2RY7KzbitFDZmB72l/dMCqdti2OxqEvVdWP9BP7MkI EWiMJtr+pdbiN3gkcus3msCtG0MWbovYrmevQmtaovjuGacIdtXaGguolGJ8cs2WSn3r RCTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDyUgpn5sWVarC+MUK8MV9IWa+cyRu9/mziZfKHiGRuPlFru94I4 fXqPuP0DpBZQ3JZ7wtFS98BehYZyChWN2brxS9uIUul24q+N/iM6BZchLCxLdwNk4SoMUoZeHfB eHNLxrCBNDMrI9F8ySyzznv/LPKAN X-Received: by 2002:adf:f081:0:b0:311:1853:8a98 with SMTP id n1-20020adff081000000b0031118538a98mr5882639wro.60.1687184741842; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 07:25:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5w65mcvue1nM1KEI+qr7Sz0xz+gnRoJGmKR+tqyI3fECiUtvaBEFN5Rvh2csbQpz0NW2/OQQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f081:0:b0:311:1853:8a98 with SMTP id n1-20020adff081000000b0031118538a98mr5882628wro.60.1687184741513; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 07:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 10:25:38 -0400 From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" To: Xuan Zhuo Cc: virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, Parav Pandit , Jason Wang Message-ID: <20230619102132-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <1686550355.2503424-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <20230612022526-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <1686569235.2395291-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> <20230613045854-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <1686810211.4567776-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1686810211.4567776-1-xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: [virtio-dev] Re: [virtio-comment] Re: About custom device counter On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 02:23:31PM +0800, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 05:02:01 -0400, "Michael S. Tsirkin" wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 07:27:15PM +0800, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 02:25:42 -0400, "Michael S. Tsirkin" wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 02:12:35PM +0800, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > > > We hope to support device custom counter. That is, virtio spec provides a > > > > > channel for driver and device, and both key and value are provided by device. > > > > > > > > > > We discussed this issue earlier, and after some internal practice, I think it is > > > > > still necessary to discuss this again. > > > > > > > > > > It is very important, each cloud vendor will always have some special counters, > > > > > these counters may not exist in another vendor. At the same time, if we have > > > > > to discuss it in the spec every time we add a counter, or add a feature, I > > > > > think it is very inconvenient. Manufacturers may add some new counters at any > > > > > time based on some new requirements. Some counters may also be removed at any > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > Of course I know that doing this might hurt migration. But what I want to say is, > > > > > why does it affect live migration? These counters we plan to give to users > > > > > through ethtool -S, and some changes have taken place in the ethtool counters > > > > > output by users. Does this have any practical impact? Or do we directly use > > > > > some other output in a way, we can clearly tell the user that these counters > > > > > may change during the migration process. For example, the driver is migrated > > > > > to some new devices. These devices support some new counters. I think users > > > > > should be able to see these new counters. These new counters may be the > > > > > purpose of the migration. > > > > > > > > > > We don't need to support live migration at this point. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just document the thing? > > > > > > Device Counter or Device Stat, we discussed this issue earlier, > > > So I want to slove the problem migration firstly. > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > Sorry have trouble parsing this. > > > > Can we get examples of counters from various vendors, so that > > it's clear what kind of thing this, and it becomes convincing > > that abstracting this in virtio spec is pointless? > > Such as "limit", in a cloud scenario, multiple users purchase different VMs, and > these VMs share the capabilities of the same host. In order to ensure that each > VM will not affect others, the network card(virtio-net) capability of each VM is > limited. When these users purchase VMs, this limit has already been determined. > So if the network card traffic of a vm exceeds the upper limit, packet loss will > occur. It is necessary for us to count these packet losses. And the device > should expose to the user. > > > Such as "session", our dpu supports tcp connection tracking, but there is an > upper limit to the number of connections, and if it exceeds, packet loss will > also occur. > > These are two commonly used scenarios, I hope they can help you. > > Thanks. So not a counter at all really. More a capability. My rule of thumb is that if something can be relevant to multiple vendors then it should not be a vendor specific capaiblity. What you have described can easily apply to a software virtio imlementation, so it's relevant for multiple vendors. So please try to add this to the spec as a generic capability. Yes adding vendor specific extensions is of course less work for vendors. But the ecosystem is only strong if everyone is working on the same spec and codebase. > > > > > Also, am I right assuming that in virtualized settings this is mostly > > relevant for hosts? E.g. guests see a vendor neutral virtio but > > host wants to figure out source of issues? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > MST > > > > > > > > > > > > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > > > > OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > > > > > > In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > > > > to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > > > > before posting. > > > > > > > > Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > > > > Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > > > > List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > > > > Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > > > Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org