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From: Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@linux-foundation.org>
To: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
Cc: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com, jeff@garzik.org,
	ian.pratt@xensource.com, ak@muc.de, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, chrisw@sous-sol.org,
	Chris Friesen <cfriesen@nortel.com>,
	virtualization@lists.osdl.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: [RFC] ARP notify option
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:00:23 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070307090023.423b97d5@oldman> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0703070838010.8567@netcore.fi>

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:42:39 +0200 (EET)
Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Chris Friesen wrote:
> > Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> >>  +arp_notify - BOOLEAN
> >>  +	Define mode for notification of address and device changes.
> >>  +	0 - (default): do nothing
> >>  +	1 - Generate gratuitous arp replies when device is brought up
> >>  +	    or hardware address changes.
> >
> > Did you consider using gratuitous arp requests instead?  I remember reading 
> > about some hardware that updated its arp cache on gratuitous requests but not 
> > gratuitous replies.
> 
> You might be interested in taking a look at:
> 
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-cheshire-ipv4-acd
> 
> There has been some follow-up discussion on this in the thread 
> starting at:
> 
> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg00611.html
> 
> In particular, you may be interested in this comment about ARP 
> request and ARP reply for gratuitous ARP:
> 
> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg00669.html

Looks like REQUESTS make more sense. (See below). I will
rework this patch.

5. Why are ARP Announcements performed using ARP Request packets
   and not ARP Reply packets?

   During IETF deliberation of IPv4 Address Conflict Detection from 2000
   to 2005, a question that kept being asked repeatedly was, "Shouldn't
   ARP Announcements be performed using gratuitous ARP Reply packets?"

   On the face of it, this seems reasonable.  A conventional ARP Reply
   is an answer to a question.  If in fact no question had been asked,
   then it would be reasonable to describe such a reply as gratuitous. 
   This description would seem to apply perfectly to an ARP
   Announcement: an answer to an implied question that in fact no one
   asked.

   However reasonable this may seem in principle, there are two reasons
   why in practice ARP Request packets are the better choice.  One is
   historical precedent, and the other is practicality.


Expires 11th January 2006             Cheshire                 [Page 14]
\f
Internet Draft       IPv4 Address Conflict Detection      11th July 2005


   The historical precedent is that, as described above in Section 4,
   Gratuitous ARP is described in Stevens Networking [Ste94] as using
   ARP Request packets.  BSD Unix, Windows, Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, etc.
   all use ARP Request packets as described in Stevens.  At this stage,
   trying to mandate that they all switch to using ARP Reply packets
   would be futile.

   The practical reason is that ARP Request packets are more likely to
   work correctly with more existing ARP implementations, some of which
   may not implement RFC 826 correctly.  The Packet Reception rules in
   RFC 826 state that the opcode is the last thing to check in packet
   processing, so it really shouldn't matter, but there may be
   "creative" implementations that have different packet processing
   depending on the ar$op field, and there are several reasons why these
   are more likely to accept gratuitous ARP Requests than gratuitous ARP
   Replies:

   * An incorrect ARP implementation may expect that ARP Replies are
     only sent via unicast.  RFC 826 does not say this, but an incorrect
     implementation may assume it, and the "principle of least surprise"
     dictates that where there are two or more ways to solve a
     networking problem that are otherwise equally good, the one with
     the fewest unusual properties is the one likely to have the fewest
     interoperability problems with existing implementations.  An ARP
     Announcement needs to broadcast information to all hosts on the
     link.  Since ARP Request packets are always broadcast, and ARP
     Reply packets are not, receiving an ARP Request packet via
     broadcast is less surprising than receiving an ARP Reply packet via
     broadcast.

   * An incorrect ARP implementation may expect that ARP Replies are
     only received in response to ARP Requests that have been issued
     recently by that implementation.  Unexpected unsolicited Replies
     may be ignored.

   * An incorrect ARP implementation may ignore ARP Replies where
     ar$tha doesn't match its hardware address.

   * An incorrect ARP implementation may ignore ARP Replies where
     ar$tpa doesn't match its IP address.

   In summary, there are more ways that an incorrect ARP implementation
   might plausibly reject an ARP Reply (which usually occurs as a result
   of being solicited by the client) than an ARP Request (which is
   already expected to occur unsolicited).

  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-07 17:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 200+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-03-01 23:24 [patch 00/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Xen guest implementation for paravirt_ops interface Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 01/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Fix typo in sync_constant_test_bit()s name Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 02/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: ignore vgacon if hardware not present Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 03/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: use paravirt_nop to consistently mark no-op operations Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:44   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:43     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 19:49       ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 20:00         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 21:59           ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 22:10             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 22:18               ` Chris Wright
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 04/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add pagetable accessors to pack and unpack pagetable entries Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:38   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:42     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 05/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: paravirt_ops: hooks to set up initial pagetable Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:33   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:39     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 19:35       ` Steven Rostedt
2007-03-17  9:47       ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 06/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: paravirt_ops: allocate a fixmap slot Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:31   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 07/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Allow paravirt backend to choose kernel PMD sharing Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:31   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 08/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: add hooks to intercept mm creation and destruction Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:30   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:38     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 09/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: remove HAVE_ARCH_MM_LIFETIME, define no-op architecture implementations Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:27   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 10/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: rename struct paravirt_patch to paravirt_patch_site for clarity Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 11/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Use patch site IDs computed from offset in paravirt_ops structure Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 12/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Fix patch site clobbers to include return register Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:45   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-02  0:49     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:52       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-02  0:58         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  1:18           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-16  9:26   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:37     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 13/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Consistently wrap paravirt ops callsites to make them patchable Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:24   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16  9:33     ` David Miller
2007-03-16  9:57       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 19:16         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 20:38       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-17 10:33         ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-18  7:33           ` David Miller
2007-03-18  7:59             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 12:08             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 15:58               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 17:04                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 17:29                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 19:30                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 23:46                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 10:57                         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-19 17:58                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 19:08                           ` David Miller
2007-03-19 20:59                             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20  3:18                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20  3:47                                 ` David Miller
2007-03-20  4:19                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 13:28                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:25                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 17:42                                         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:52                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 18:03                                             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 17:27                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 19:21                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 18:49                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 20:23                                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 21:39                                                       ` Alan Cox
2007-03-20 21:49                                                         ` [Xen-devel] " Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 23:51                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 23:43                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  6:08                                                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-20 16:12                                     ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-03-20  1:23                         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20  1:45                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19  2:47               ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-19 18:25                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-19 18:38                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-19 18:44                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-19 19:33                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20  0:01                     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20  2:00                       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20  4:20                         ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20  5:54                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 11:33                           ` Andreas Kleen
2007-03-20 15:09                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 15:58                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 16:06                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 16:31                                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 22:09                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-21  0:24                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  2:53                                       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-21  2:15                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  3:43                                           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 22:43                                   ` Matt Mackall
2007-03-20 23:08                                     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 23:33                                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-21  1:14                                         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 23:41                                       ` Matt Mackall
2007-03-21  0:20                                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 19:28                                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 19:54                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 20:02                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:26                               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 22:41                               ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20 17:00                             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-21  0:03                             ` Paul Mackerras
2007-04-12 23:16                               ` David Miller
2007-03-19 18:41                   ` Chris Wright
2007-03-19 19:10                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 19:46                     ` David Miller
2007-03-19 20:06                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 23:42                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-16 17:36     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 23:29       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-17  0:40         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-17  9:10           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-17  9:26     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 14/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: add common patching machinery Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:20   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-17  9:15     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 15/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add apply_to_page_range() which applies a function to a pte range Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:19   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:47     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:08     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 16/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Allocate and free vmalloc areas Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:16   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:05     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 17/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add nosegneg capability to the vsyscall page notes Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:15   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 21:26     ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-16 21:56       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 22:20         ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 18/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add XEN config options Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:14   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:04     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 19/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen interface header files Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 20/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Core Xen implementation Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:14   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 12:00     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-16 16:33     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 16:44       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 16:57         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:12     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-19 18:05       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-19 18:13         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 18:15         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-17  9:13     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-18  7:03       ` [Xen-devel] " Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 21/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Use the hvc console infrastructure for Xen console Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16  9:28     ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
     [not found]     ` <C22013C9.B9E6%keir@xensource.com>
2007-03-16  9:58       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 10:31         ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 10:31         ` Keir Fraser
     [not found]         ` <C2202295.BA49%keir@xensource.com>
2007-03-16 11:41           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-16 11:58             ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 11:58             ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 17:02     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 22/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add early printk support via hvc console Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:52   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 23/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen grant table support Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:51   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:00     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 24/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xenbus sysfs and virtual device hotplug driver Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:47   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:18     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 16:19       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:40         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:53           ` Greg KH
2007-03-16 16:57     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 25/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen virtual block device driver Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 26/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xen virtual network " Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:42   ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-02  0:56     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  1:30       ` [RFC] Arp announce (for Xen) Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-02  8:46         ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-02 12:54         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-02 14:08           ` jamal
2007-03-02 18:08         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06  4:35         ` David Miller
2007-03-06 18:51           ` [RFC] ARP notify option Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-06 19:04             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 19:07             ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 21:18             ` Chris Friesen
2007-03-06 22:52               ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-07  6:42               ` Pekka Savola
2007-03-07 17:00                 ` Stephen Hemminger [this message]
2007-03-02  1:21     ` [patch 26/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xen virtual network device driver Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-02  1:26       ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16  8:42 ` [patch 00/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Xen guest implementation for paravirt_ops interface Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:55   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:26   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 18:59     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-16 19:26       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge

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