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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
Cc: zach@vmware.com, jeremy@goop.org, xen-devel@lists.xensource.com,
	ak@muc.de, rusty@rustcorp.com.au, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	chrisw@sous-sol.org, virtualization@lists.osdl.org,
	anthony@codemonkey.ws, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [patch 13/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Consistently wrap paravirt ops callsites to make them patchable
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:57:02 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070316095702.GA301@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070316.023331.59468179.davem@davemloft.net>


* David Miller <davem@davemloft.net> wrote:

> From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:24:45 +0100
> 
> > ugh. This is beyond ugly! Why dont we just compile two images, one 
> > for Xen and one for native, do two passes to get those two images 
> > and 'merge' them into a single vmlinuz (so that we still have a 
> > 'single' kernel unit to deal with on the distro side). This way we 
> > avoid all this crazy, limited, fragile patchery business...
> 
> Perhaps the problem can be dealt with using ELF relocations.
> 
> There is another case, discussed yesterday on netdev, where run-time 
> resolution of ELF relocations would be useful (for 
> very-very-very-read-only variables) so if it can solve this problem 
> too it would be nice to have a generic infrastructure for it.

yeah, and i really think this is very fundamental: we've already got a 
very nice tool that can do things like detect when we are paravirt and 
optimize and patch things in a machine-specific way. It can even reorder 
instructions and simulate the CPU's pipeline state and do very smart 
optimizations based on that. It's a really neat thing, they call it 
"GCC".

Limited, instruction-level patching like alternatives.h is fine because 
that makes it easier to support multiple, incompatible CPU 
architectures, without having to do a hugely intrusive split at the 
kernel RPM level.

but the level of 'binary patching' done by the paravirt and Xen goes way 
beyond that, and the changes here really underscore that we:

  _should not emulate the closed source world_

There the only solution is to binary-patch - because they have no source 
code. But here, we've got all the source code.

splitting the images and simply extending vmlinuz to have a 
'multi-image' format would not only eliminate a huge amount of hookery, 
it would also solve the problem of CONFIG_PARAVIRT bloating the native 
kernel's codepaths by ~7%.

nobody wants to boot a xen-paravirt kernel from a floppy, so image size 
is not an issue. In-RAM overhead would in fact be /reduced/, because 
currently all the paravirt overhead hits both the native and the 
paravirt kernel. Nor would /all/ of the vmlinuz have to be replicated in 
the images - it's enough to replicate only those functions that truly 
differ between the two build methods.

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-16  9:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 201+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-03-01 23:24 [patch 00/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Xen guest implementation for paravirt_ops interface Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 01/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Fix typo in sync_constant_test_bit()s name Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 02/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: ignore vgacon if hardware not present Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:45   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 03/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: use paravirt_nop to consistently mark no-op operations Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:44   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:43     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 19:49       ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 20:00         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 21:59           ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 22:10             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 22:18               ` Chris Wright
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 04/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add pagetable accessors to pack and unpack pagetable entries Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:38   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:42     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 05/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: paravirt_ops: hooks to set up initial pagetable Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:33   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 18:39     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 19:35       ` Steven Rostedt
2007-03-17  9:47       ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 06/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: paravirt_ops: allocate a fixmap slot Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:31   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 07/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Allow paravirt backend to choose kernel PMD sharing Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:31   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 08/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: add hooks to intercept mm creation and destruction Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:30   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:38     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 09/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: remove HAVE_ARCH_MM_LIFETIME, define no-op architecture implementations Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:27   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 10/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: rename struct paravirt_patch to paravirt_patch_site for clarity Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 11/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Use patch site IDs computed from offset in paravirt_ops structure Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 12/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Fix patch site clobbers to include return register Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:45   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-02  0:49     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:52       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-02  0:58         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  1:18           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-16  9:26   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:37     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 13/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Consistently wrap paravirt ops callsites to make them patchable Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:24   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16  9:33     ` David Miller
2007-03-16  9:57       ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2007-03-16 19:16         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 20:38       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-17 10:33         ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-18  7:33           ` David Miller
2007-03-18  7:59             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 12:08             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 15:58               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 17:04                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 17:29                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-18 19:30                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-18 23:46                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 10:57                         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-19 17:58                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 19:08                           ` David Miller
2007-03-19 20:59                             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20  3:18                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20  3:47                                 ` David Miller
2007-03-20  4:19                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 13:28                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:25                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 17:42                                         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:52                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 18:03                                             ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 17:27                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 19:21                                                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 18:49                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 20:23                                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 21:39                                                       ` Alan Cox
2007-03-20 21:49                                                         ` [Xen-devel] " Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 23:51                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 23:43                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  6:08                                                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-20 16:12                                     ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-03-20  1:23                         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20  1:45                           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19  2:47               ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-19 18:25                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-19 18:38                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-19 18:44                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-19 19:33                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20  0:01                     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20  2:00                       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20  4:20                         ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20  5:54                         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 11:33                           ` Andreas Kleen
2007-03-20 15:09                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 15:58                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-20 16:06                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-20 16:31                                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 22:09                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-21  0:24                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  2:53                                       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-21  2:15                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-21  3:43                                           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 22:43                                   ` Matt Mackall
2007-03-20 23:08                                     ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 23:33                                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-21  1:14                                         ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 23:41                                       ` Matt Mackall
2007-03-21  0:20                                     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 19:28                                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 19:54                                   ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-20 20:02                                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-20 16:26                               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-20 22:41                               ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-20 17:00                             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-21  0:03                             ` Paul Mackerras
2007-04-12 23:16                               ` David Miller
2007-03-19 18:41                   ` Chris Wright
2007-03-19 19:10                   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 19:46                     ` David Miller
2007-03-19 20:06                       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 23:42                     ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-16 17:36     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 23:29       ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-17  0:40         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-17  9:10           ` Zachary Amsden
2007-03-17  9:26     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 14/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: add common patching machinery Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:20   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-17  9:15     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 15/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add apply_to_page_range() which applies a function to a pte range Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:19   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:47     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:08     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:24 ` [patch 16/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Allocate and free vmalloc areas Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:16   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:05     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 17/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add nosegneg capability to the vsyscall page notes Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:15   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 21:26     ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-16 21:56       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 22:20         ` Roland McGrath
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 18/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add XEN config options Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:14   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:04     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 19/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen interface header files Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 20/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Core Xen implementation Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:14   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 12:00     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-16 16:33     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 16:44       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 16:57         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:12     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-19 18:05       ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-03-19 18:13         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-19 18:15         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-17  9:13     ` Rusty Russell
2007-03-18  7:03       ` [Xen-devel] " Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 21/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Use the hvc console infrastructure for Xen console Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:54   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16  9:28     ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
     [not found]     ` <C22013C9.B9E6%keir@xensource.com>
2007-03-16  9:58       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 10:31         ` [Xen-devel] " Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 10:31         ` Keir Fraser
     [not found]         ` <C2202295.BA49%keir@xensource.com>
2007-03-16 11:41           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-16 11:58             ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 11:58             ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-16 17:02     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 22/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add early printk support via hvc console Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:52   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 23/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen grant table support Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:51   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:00     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 24/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xenbus sysfs and virtual device hotplug driver Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  8:47   ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:18     ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 16:19       ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:40         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16 17:53           ` Greg KH
2007-03-16 16:57     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 25/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add Xen virtual block device driver Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-01 23:25 ` [patch 26/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xen virtual network " Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  0:42   ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-02  0:56     ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  1:30       ` [RFC] Arp announce (for Xen) Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-02  8:46         ` Keir Fraser
2007-03-02 12:54         ` Andi Kleen
2007-03-02 14:08           ` jamal
2007-03-02 18:08         ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06  4:35         ` David Miller
2007-03-06 18:51           ` [RFC] ARP notify option Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-06 19:04             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06 19:07             ` Chris Wright
2007-03-06 21:18             ` Chris Friesen
2007-03-06 22:52               ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-07  6:42               ` Pekka Savola
2007-03-07 17:00                 ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-03-02  1:21     ` [patch 26/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Add the Xen virtual network device driver Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-02  1:26       ` Chris Wright
2007-03-16  8:42 ` [patch 00/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Xen guest implementation for paravirt_ops interface Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 16:55   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16  9:21 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-03-16 17:26   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-16 18:59     ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-03-16 19:26       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-02-27  8:13 Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-02-27  8:13 ` [patch 13/26] Xen-paravirt_ops: Consistently wrap paravirt ops callsites to make them patchable Jeremy Fitzhardinge

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