From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83D093FC5A4; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:55:31 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780930533; cv=none; b=rZjC7Kf7mvrr/3sA8QJ+Em6UtFXGI/hrg/wyC6uj0BJL9kQRx3rikqBWUfPfB+FJIbskK9HANAWB6OkS/6vA4VKHRRH/t9N5+ny0sacxhj+Kc+qUhtFlFRdRQHGwjSZNl4xWFAyE/BLBiKSeklqzdLIsRGXWZGUvGv9iEX9EQPQ= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780930533; c=relaxed/simple; bh=Q3UWI7eDxmx+XbKf1TYwP+gRoGNWPuBnNFJdELZeHs0=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=jJrMsLVpuQuPrdmXSXibT9CBWiFAsUs4+nJU+TTTFPa7s+EekFWtHRnZdv9o+LNfNvbvRRZp6uKa8YgmM3IqoEnYMLZQYRAfPJ3b1OfieoaLtgAsAMRbyCRilIO0upqKHqaAuOUs/qlY422OXNn/2bd7k4zb3hVvcrICS0RrIBA= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=icgU8R3K; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="icgU8R3K" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B69F61F00893; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 14:55:20 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1780930531; bh=YQxIp5STkM1u5oGeAH0FbCR0lUzYUCAoQQ1syLTLpJk=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=icgU8R3KjAHS2Z85xEQssGeXxzqB7M1tP5okT93EKmWfmvoHP+pPDZ1TdEYs8pyM+ YRRSa9Eg5WdLSAt3pPT7Yw/WrPBUNNPaLO6ebFoTucxfiMfWXXZkmeNirbWtfmz5t5 SXSqeH5Wu8W43k20RsndYGqlWLYOihtQD33amC/AsnjjAhIK2NAIsinOBBaPPAW+G9 ciWPO2iQ9ono2WGQsp8G1pKK5hMSexYCTGBMjfHleqIw9ihf79FjKUDnN+Jnp2fQQb C8WWfymG2sqez1r3phP3B8ISRfttTUKA35umD3tAaCUl1Dowd0Kkty+J4w1rdt0MFv kAnKj2uCccdJw== Message-ID: <68ac0163-865a-452e-b643-351e094cb2ba@kernel.org> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 16:55:19 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: virtualization@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v10 07/37] mm: thread user_addr through page allocator for cache-friendly zeroing To: Matthew Wilcox Cc: Lorenzo Stoakes , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jason Wang , Xuan Zhuo , =?UTF-8?Q?Eugenio_P=C3=A9rez?= , Muchun Song , Oscar Salvador , Andrew Morton , "Liam R. Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Michal Hocko , Brendan Jackman , Johannes Weiner , Zi Yan , Baolin Wang , Nico Pache , Ryan Roberts , Dev Jain , Barry Song , Lance Yang , Hugh Dickins , Matthew Brost , Joshua Hahn , Rakie Kim , Byungchul Park , Gregory Price , Ying Huang , Alistair Popple , Christoph Lameter , David Rientjes , Roman Gushchin , Harry Yoo , Axel Rasmussen , Yuanchu Xie , Wei Xu , Chris Li , Kairui Song , Kemeng Shi , Nhat Pham , Baoquan He , virtualization@lists.linux.dev, linux-mm@kvack.org, Andrea Arcangeli References: <50d410b47fe3f45327783e05bd306d5eaab75e65.1780906288.git.mst@redhat.com> From: "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@kernel.org; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzS5EYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCAoQ3VycmVudCkgPGRhdmlkQGtlcm5lbC5vcmc+wsGQBBMBCAA6AhsDBQkmWAik AgsJBBUKCQgCFgICHgUCF4AWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3AP+DWgUCaYJt/AIZAQAKCRBN 3hD3AP+DWriiD/9BLGEKG+N8L2AXhikJg6YmXom9ytRwPqDgpHpVg2xdhopoWdMRXjzOrIKD g4LSnFaKneQD0hZhoArEeamG5tyo32xoRsPwkbpIzL0OKSZ8G6mVbFGpjmyDLQCAxteXCLXz ZI0VbsuJKelYnKcXWOIndOrNRvE5eoOfTt2XfBnAapxMYY2IsV+qaUXlO63GgfIOg8RBaj7x 3NxkI3rV0SHhI4GU9K6jCvGghxeS1QX6L/XI9mfAYaIwGy5B68kF26piAVYv/QZDEVIpo3t7 /fjSpxKT8plJH6rhhR0epy8dWRHk3qT5tk2P85twasdloWtkMZ7FsCJRKWscm1BLpsDn6EQ4 jeMHECiY9kGKKi8dQpv3FRyo2QApZ49NNDbwcR0ZndK0XFo15iH708H5Qja/8TuXCwnPWAcJ DQoNIDFyaxe26Rx3ZwUkRALa3iPcVjE0//TrQ4KnFf+lMBSrS33xDDBfevW9+Dk6IISmDH1R HFq2jpkN+FX/PE8eVhV68B2DsAPZ5rUwyCKUXPTJ/irrCCmAAb5Jpv11S7hUSpqtM/6oVESC 3z/7CzrVtRODzLtNgV4r5EI+wAv/3PgJLlMwgJM90Fb3CB2IgbxhjvmB1WNdvXACVydx55V7 LPPKodSTF29rlnQAf9HLgCphuuSrrPn5VQDaYZl4N/7zc2wcWM7BTQRVy5+RARAA59fefSDR 9nMGCb9LbMX+TFAoIQo/wgP5XPyzLYakO+94GrgfZjfhdaxPXMsl2+o8jhp/hlIzG56taNdt VZtPp3ih1AgbR8rHgXw1xwOpuAd5lE1qNd54ndHuADO9a9A0vPimIes78Hi1/yy+ZEEvRkHk /kDa6F3AtTc1m4rbbOk2fiKzzsE9YXweFjQvl9p+AMw6qd/iC4lUk9g0+FQXNdRs+o4o6Qvy iOQJfGQ4UcBuOy1IrkJrd8qq5jet1fcM2j4QvsW8CLDWZS1L7kZ5gT5EycMKxUWb8LuRjxzZ 3QY1aQH2kkzn6acigU3HLtgFyV1gBNV44ehjgvJpRY2cC8VhanTx0dZ9mj1YKIky5N+C0f21 zvntBqcxV0+3p8MrxRRcgEtDZNav+xAoT3G0W4SahAaUTWXpsZoOecwtxi74CyneQNPTDjNg azHmvpdBVEfj7k3p4dmJp5i0U66Onmf6mMFpArvBRSMOKU9DlAzMi4IvhiNWjKVaIE2Se9BY FdKVAJaZq85P2y20ZBd08ILnKcj7XKZkLU5FkoA0udEBvQ0f9QLNyyy3DZMCQWcwRuj1m73D sq8DEFBdZ5eEkj1dCyx+t/ga6x2rHyc8Sl86oK1tvAkwBNsfKou3v+jP/l14a7DGBvrmlYjO 59o3t6inu6H7pt7OL6u6BQj7DoMAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBBvZyq1zXEw6Rg38yk3e EPcA/4NaBQJonNqrBQkmWAihAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NaKtMQALAJ8PzprBEXbXcEXwDKQu+P/vts IfUb1UNMfMV76BicGa5NCZnJNQASDP/+bFg6O3gx5NbhHHPeaWz/VxlOmYHokHodOvtL0WCC 8A5PEP8tOk6029Z+J+xUcMrJClNVFpzVvOpb1lCbhjwAV465Hy+NUSbbUiRxdzNQtLtgZzOV Zw7jxUCs4UUZLQTCuBpFgb15bBxYZ/BL9MbzxPxvfUQIPbnzQMcqtpUs21CMK2PdfCh5c4gS sDci6D5/ZIBw94UQWmGpM/O1ilGXde2ZzzGYl64glmccD8e87OnEgKnH3FbnJnT4iJchtSvx yJNi1+t0+qDti4m88+/9IuPqCKb6Stl+s2dnLtJNrjXBGJtsQG/sRpqsJz5x1/2nPJSRMsx9 5YfqbdrJSOFXDzZ8/r82HgQEtUvlSXNaXCa95ez0UkOG7+bDm2b3s0XahBQeLVCH0mw3RAQg r7xDAYKIrAwfHHmMTnBQDPJwVqxJjVNr7yBic4yfzVWGCGNE4DnOW0vcIeoyhy9vnIa3w1uZ 3iyY2Nsd7JxfKu1PRhCGwXzRw5TlfEsoRI7V9A8isUCoqE2Dzh3FvYHVeX4Us+bRL/oqareJ CIFqgYMyvHj7Q06kTKmauOe4Nf0l0qEkIuIzfoLJ3qr5UyXc2hLtWyT9Ir+lYlX9efqh7mOY qIws/H2t In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/8/26 16:44, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2026 at 04:37:03PM +0200, David Hildenbrand (Arm) wrote: >> On 6/8/26 16:31, Matthew Wilcox wrote: >>> >>> What I don't understand is how the kernel page allocator needs to know >>> the user address in order to effectively zero it, but the hypervisor is >>> able to zero the page without knowing the user address. It feels like >>> somebody has x86-centric thinking where cache colouring doesn't matter. >> >> (not commenting on the icache dache mess we have to drag along) > > Well, that was kind of the point of this email ... I did ask the > question you're answering in a different email so let me respond > to that too. Now I'm confused :) > >> The thing is that with free-page-reporting the memory is already zeroed by the >> hypervisor as part of discarding that memory previously (e.g., MADV_DONTNEED) >> and allocating fresh pages on re-access. >> >> So it's not a question of "why is the hypervisor zeroing less efficiently", as >> zeroing is just a side-product of reclaiming that memory in the first place. > > We definitely have users who don't want the guest to trust the > hypervisor. So how do they disable this optimisation? Right, I don't think we currently have a toggle to disable free page reporting. So IIUC, this optimization would similarly automatically get enabled if the hypervisor advertises it. -- Cheers, David