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Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from devvm6277.cco0.facebook.com ([2a03:2880:2ff:5::]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-30102709b6asm26289a91.1.2025.03.10.13.14.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:14:38 -0700 From: Bobby Eshleman To: Jason Wang Cc: Stefano Garzarella , davem@davemloft.net, Stefan Hajnoczi , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jorgen Hansen , kvm@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-hyperv@vger.kernel.org, Dexuan Cui , netdev@vger.kernel.org, Jakub Kicinski Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/3] vsock: support network namespace Message-ID: References: <20200116172428.311437-1-sgarzare@redhat.com> <20200427142518.uwssa6dtasrp3bfc@steredhat> <224cdc10-1532-7ddc-f113-676d43d8f322@redhat.com> <20200428160052.o3ihui4262xogyg4@steredhat> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: virtualization@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: On Wed, Mar 05, 2025 at 01:46:54PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 8:39 AM Bobby Eshleman wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 06:00:52PM +0200, Stefano Garzarella wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 04:13:22PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > WRT netdev, do we foresee big gains beyond just leveraging the netdev's > > namespace? > > It's a leverage of the network subsystem (netdevice, steering, uAPI, > tracing, probably a lot of others), not only its namespace. It can > avoid duplicating existing mechanisms in a vsock specific way. If we > manage to do that, namespace support will be a "byproduct". > [...] > > Yes, it can. I think we need to evaluate both approaches (that's why I > raise the approach of reusing netdevice). We can hear from others. > I agree it is worth evaluating. If netdev is being considered, then it is probably also worth considering your suggestion from a few years back to add these capabilities by building vsock on top of virtio-net [1]. [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/2747ac1f-390e-99f9-b24e-f179af79a9da@redhat.com/ Considering that the current vsock protocol will only ever be able to enjoy a restricted feature set of these other net subsystems due to its lack of tolerance for packet loss (e.g., no multiqueue steering, no packet scheduling), I wonder if it would be best to a) wait until a user requires these capabilities, and b) at that point extend vsock to tolerate packet loss (add a seqnum)? > > > > Some other thoughts I had: netdev's flow control features would all have > > to be ignored or disabled somehow (I think dev_direct_xmit()?), because > > queueing introduces packet loss and the vsock protocol is unable to > > survive packet loss. > > Or just allow it and then configuring a qdisc that may drop packets > could be treated as a misconfiguration. > That is possible, but when I was playing with vsock qdisc the only one that worked was pfifo_fast/pfifo, as the others that I tested async drop packets. Thanks, Bobby