From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB6404EC66A; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 12:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791895149; cv=none; b=pumMJQPn6MRs6zflXdwx4u/jtmA2vIxEndhagbt0H13kYP0bNQa3stSuqiwJfAb1tMaOy/+1w+BKPIlQeyG0Igzm6I/UDXUe7k2Z3GGx4E3WZOLq71TkdIDAIRlWF4kGRfYAO7ihYe2u4IzBkHkbCOKJggYL55zm77Ucui4JUoA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1791895149; c=relaxed/simple; bh=54+EECVHOCxW1KL0n4SDyYuynsMcameRIV+21YFs89c=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=hPjQ9kl8MrMbrbD/aoeqGXLPMOgfy4yPagYBl59Jw1dB8fWncU2LcWkcgSDCUKoX+Gr6WT6LuM+lNk2kEZFUEvnJsg+PIYjpjdEZei8vh3Kz5O+q+ZYuVOzsV8357ByrzPZEGkbgIz9R0Y/ctK1ByKS3lh6FH0yboJPsBtE/rSo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b=Z9CRu+Qm; arc=none smtp.client-ip=213.167.242.64 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ideasonboard.com header.i=@ideasonboard.com header.b="Z9CRu+Qm" Received: from killaraus.ideasonboard.com (unknown [185.104.138.147]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DFC3230; Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:37:02 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1791895022; bh=54+EECVHOCxW1KL0n4SDyYuynsMcameRIV+21YFs89c=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Z9CRu+QmH/XPzVnWEhODrF2cmFs6iW+eKLL9b/8m+AAhD8y03J/F3kfYRJ6c8iZID HSVkFcxMmdLlBIk7mAX3NF9LQAb0qigNZooYPcsA75JegB2BgnCpwldmN5mLeBI6A0 VHjj9TriDBSzv/IaK3Ef0XDRT05mjKBthpXKoJqU= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2026 14:38:53 +0200 From: Laurent Pinchart To: Jori Koolstra Cc: "Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM)" , Linus Torvalds , Sasha Levin , Greg Kroah-Hartman , corbet@lwn.net, skhan@linuxfoundation.org, rdunlap@infradead.org, federico.vaga@vaga.pv.it, apw@canonical.com, joe@perches.com, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Krzysztof Kozlowski , Justin Stitt , Carlos Maiolino , Jakub Kicinski , Brian Foster , Christoph Hellwig , David Disseldorp , Mark Brown , Jani Nikula , Jens Axboe , "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" , Vlastimil Babka , "Christian Brauner (Amutable)" Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: remove Assisted-by references Message-ID: <20261013123853.GD4214@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> References: <20261009083137.3-1-sashal@kernel.org> <0914a106-bacf-4d95-854a-bfeefbff62a4@kernel.org> <1716819121.765615.1791890380179@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1716819121.765615.1791890380179@kpc.webmail.kpnmail.nl> On Tue, Oct 13, 2026 at 01:19:40PM +0200, Jori Koolstra wrote: > > Op 12-10-2026 17:42 CEST schreef Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) : > > > > +cc the participants from that thread FYI. The original patch is at [2]. > > Thanks, Lorenzo. > > > On Fri, Oct 09, 2026 at 12:05:06PM +0200, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: > > > On 09/10/2026 10:31, Sasha Levin wrote: > > > > The Maintainers Summit reached consensus to deprecate the Assisted-by > > > > tag. Remove the documentation requiring it. > > > > > > Please provide here some sort of arguments used in that summit > > > consensus/discussion. This basically reverts/changes previous consensus > > > [1], which is fine itself, but it lacks reasoning. > > > > > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/workflows/2026070224-unholy-commode-cf45@gregkh/ > > > > Thanks for linking that! It is important to ack previous discussion on > > this. Also LWN article is up now at [3]. > > > > I'm less bothered than you might think by this change. > > > > The tag's useful for push back on review, but the only long-term strategy for > > slop is to aggressively ignore it. > > > > Linus has made that clear that that's fine. > > > > What kills the project is having 1,000 slop submissions that 2 or 3 people have > > to do something with. > > > > The only long-term solution to that is to hit mark read 1,000 times :) > > There's a way to nuke drive-by authors and that is to require them to do > some kind of "proof-of-effort." So you want to contribute to the kernel? > Good, come to one of the OSS conferences, or LPC, or have some well-known > maintainer vouch for you, or do the kernel mentorship program. The point > is not that this cannot be gamed, but that the "gaming" in itself requires > some kind of investment, like proof-of-work. > > We may miss the savant that for whatever reason cannot show up to a conference, We'll miss all the contributors who started small and put time and effort in learning. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the people on the CC list, and it certainly includes myself. Making it much more difficult for true hackers to contribute to the kernel, including by requiring paying for travel to conferences, is the kind of policy that would make me stop contributing to the kernel. > but Linux Foundation is already very supportive of funding people. How many people with very little history of kernel contributions has the LF funded ? > And besides, > Linus has already made it clear that we can expect of people to be able to grow > into serious community members (which may include being able to effort time and/or > money for LLM access.) Time won't buy you a ticket to LPC. > This would solve most slop immediately, and we will know about LLM found bugs > anyway from cooperation with Anthropic and just the maintainers using LLMs. > > > Sasha - maybe worth linking the LWN article now it's up in the commit message > > and adding a little more detail around the decision? > > > > Otherwise LGTM: > > > > Acked-by: Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) > > > > -- > > Cheers, Lorenzo > > > > [2]:https://lore.kernel.org/all/20261009083137.3-1-sashal@kernel.org/ > > [3]:https://lwn.net/Articles/1099594/ -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart