xen-devel.lists.xenproject.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Martin Pohlack <mpohlack@amazon.com>
To: Ross Lagerwall <ross.lagerwall@citrix.com>,
	Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk <konrad.wilk@oracle.com>,
	xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, msw@amazon.com,
	aliguori@amazon.com, amesserl@rackspace.com,
	rick.harris@rackspace.com, paul.voccio@rackspace.com,
	steven.wilson@rackspace.com, major.hayden@rackspace.com,
	josh.kearney@rackspace.com, jinsong.liu@alibaba-inc.com,
	xiantao.zxt@alibaba-inc.com, boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com,
	daniel.kiper@oracle.com, elena.ufimtseva@oracle.com,
	bob.liu@oracle.com, lars.kurth@citrix.com, hanweidong@huawei.com,
	peter.huangpeng@huawei.com, fanhenglong@huawei.com,
	liuyingdong@huawei.com, john.liuqiming@huawei.com,
	jbeulich@suse.com, andrew.cooper3@citrix.com,
	ian.campbell@citrix.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/5] xsplice: Design document.
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:08:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <562F3102.8030701@amazon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5613C553.2040707@citrix.com>

On 06.10.2015 14:57, Ross Lagerwall wrote:
> On 09/16/2015 10:01 PM, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk wrote:
>> +### xSplice interdependencies
>> +
>> +xSplice patches interdependencies are tricky.
>> +
>> +There are the ways this can be addressed:
>> + * A single large patch that subsumes and replaces all previous ones.
>> +   Over the life-time of patching the hypervisor this large patch
>> +   grows to accumulate all the code changes.
>> + * Hotpatch stack - where an mechanism exists that loads the hotpatches
>> +   in the same order they were built in. We would need an build-id
>> +   of the hypevisor to make sure the hot-patches are build against the
>> +   correct build.
>> + * Payload containing the old code to check against that. That allows
>> +   the hotpatches to be loaded indepedently (if they don't overlap) - or
>> +   if the old code also containst previously patched code - even if they
>> +   overlap.
>> +
>> +The disadvantage of the first large patch is that it can grow over
>> +time and not provide an bisection mechanism to identify faulty patches.
>> +
>> +The hot-patch stack puts stricts requirements on the order of the patches
>> +being loaded and requires an hypervisor build-id to match against.
>> +
>> +The old code allows much more flexibility and an additional guard,
>> +but is more complex to implement.
>> +
> 
> If the single large patch mechanism is used, a new REPLACE action is 
> needed to atomically replace one patch with another to prevent a window 
> where the hypervisor is unpatched. kpatch has a "replace" command for 
> this purpose. This may be useful even for the other mechanisms listed above.
> 
>  From what I can tell:
> * kSplice uses old code checking (method [3] above), although in 
> practice the userspace tools implement dependency logic to enforce a 
> linear stack of patches.
> * kPatch and kGraft recommend using the single large patch mechanism 
> although there's nothing preventing two independent patches from being 
> loaded.

To make sure this argument is not lost: I wrote in an earlier email

> * There is a general (and mostly obscure) limitation on unloading
>   hotpatches:
> 
>   In contrast to normal kernel modules where the module code adheres
>   to specific conventions around resource allocation and locking,
>   hotpatches typically contain code from any context.  That code is
>   usually not aware that it can be unloaded.
> 
>   That code could leave behind in Xen references to itself, e.g., by
>   installing a function pointer in a global data structure, without
>   incrementing something like a usage count.  While most hotpatch code
>   will probably be very simple and small, a similar effect could even
>   be achieved by code called from the hotpatch in Xen, e.g., some code
>   patch could dynamically generate a backtrace and later decide to
>   inspect individual elements from the collected trace, later being a
>   time, where the hotpatch has been unloaded again.
> 
>   One could approach that proplem from multiple angles: code
>   inspection of generated hotpatches, testing, and by making unloading
>   a very special and exceptional operation.

If we follow that argument, we should consider patch unloading to be a
potentially unsafe operation which should not be part of standard
workflows.  Consequently, a similar argument holds for REPLACE, because
removing / unloading older code is part of replacement.

One could now either aim to have special inspection and testing
regarding unloading to lower the risk there, or:

Structure hotpatches as an ever-increasing stack of modules that are
loaded on top of each other.  This approach works around the unloading
problems as well as the temporary-unsafe problem outlined above.  Memory
usage would be similar to an ever-increasing monolithic hotpatch (+ some
fragmentation, - the temporary additional memory requirement for
replacing the monolithic hotpatch).

Martin

Amazon Development Center Germany GmbH
Krausenstr. 38
10117 Berlin
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Dr. Ralf Herbrich, Christian Schlaeger
Ust-ID: DE289237879
Eingetragen am Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 149173 B

  reply	other threads:[~2015-10-27  8:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-16 21:01 [PATCH v1] xSplice initial foundation patches Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 21:01 ` [PATCH v1 1/5] xsplice: Design document Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-05 10:02   ` Jan Beulich
2015-10-05 10:28   ` Ross Lagerwall
2015-10-12 11:44     ` xsplice-build prototype (was [PATCH v1 1/5] xsplice: Design document.) Ross Lagerwall
2015-10-12 13:06       ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-12 14:20       ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-06 12:57   ` [PATCH v1 1/5] xsplice: Design document Ross Lagerwall
2015-10-27  8:08     ` Martin Pohlack [this message]
2015-10-27  8:45       ` Ross Lagerwall
2015-10-06 15:26   ` Jan Beulich
2015-10-26 12:01   ` Martin Pohlack
2015-10-26 12:10     ` Jan Beulich
2015-10-26 13:21     ` Ross Lagerwall
2015-10-26 13:55       ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 21:01 ` [PATCH v1 2/5] xen/xsplice: Hypervisor implementation of XEN_XSPLICE_op Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-02 15:06   ` Jan Beulich
2015-09-16 21:01 ` [PATCH v1 3/5] libxc: Implementation of XEN_XSPLICE_op in libxc Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 21:01 ` [PATCH v1 4/5] xen-xsplice: Tool to manipulate xsplice payloads Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 21:01 ` [PATCH v1 5/5] xsplice: Use ld-embedded build-ids Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 21:41   ` Andrew Cooper
2015-09-16 21:59     ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-16 22:31       ` Andrew Cooper
2015-09-17  6:41         ` Martin Pohlack
2015-09-17  9:35           ` Andrew Cooper
2015-09-17 18:45             ` Is: Make XENVER_* use XSM, seperate the different ops in smaller security domains. Was:Re: " Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-18 11:40               ` Andrew Cooper
2015-09-22 13:22                 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-22 13:33                   ` Andrew Cooper
2015-09-22 13:45                     ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-09-22 16:28                       ` Daniel De Graaf
2015-09-22 16:28               ` Daniel De Graaf
2015-09-25 20:18                 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-02 15:13   ` Jan Beulich
2015-10-02 14:48 ` [PATCH v1] xSplice initial foundation patches Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2015-10-09 12:46   ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
     [not found] <560E66D902000078000DA088@prv-mh.provo.novell.com>
2015-10-02 13:36 ` [PATCH v1 1/5] xsplice: Design document Jan Beulich

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=562F3102.8030701@amazon.com \
    --to=mpohlack@amazon.com \
    --cc=aliguori@amazon.com \
    --cc=amesserl@rackspace.com \
    --cc=andrew.cooper3@citrix.com \
    --cc=bob.liu@oracle.com \
    --cc=boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com \
    --cc=daniel.kiper@oracle.com \
    --cc=elena.ufimtseva@oracle.com \
    --cc=fanhenglong@huawei.com \
    --cc=hanweidong@huawei.com \
    --cc=ian.campbell@citrix.com \
    --cc=jbeulich@suse.com \
    --cc=jinsong.liu@alibaba-inc.com \
    --cc=john.liuqiming@huawei.com \
    --cc=josh.kearney@rackspace.com \
    --cc=konrad.wilk@oracle.com \
    --cc=lars.kurth@citrix.com \
    --cc=liuyingdong@huawei.com \
    --cc=major.hayden@rackspace.com \
    --cc=msw@amazon.com \
    --cc=paul.voccio@rackspace.com \
    --cc=peter.huangpeng@huawei.com \
    --cc=rick.harris@rackspace.com \
    --cc=ross.lagerwall@citrix.com \
    --cc=steven.wilson@rackspace.com \
    --cc=xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org \
    --cc=xiantao.zxt@alibaba-inc.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).