Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

[Thomas Goirand]

Hi there,

If you didn't see it, you should read the thread "Xen, Squeeze, and
Beyond" on the debian-devel list that you may have missed:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/thrd2.html#00653
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/03/threads.html#00005

This clearly shows you what I told you about the lack of support for Xen
in Debian. What I see is that there's more a lack of communication than
anything else.

Debian is like no others distribution, if nobody cares doing the dirty
work of packaging, some software can go away from the archive, simply
because of the lack of task force. The disaster of the Lenny dom0 with
no upstream support should be avoided at all costs, and the only way to
do so is by having people working on Xen involved in Debian. Otherwise,
the Debian kernel team will simply hate working on maintaining a Xen
dom0 (which is already the case, I believe).

Any lack of responsiveness of everyone can lead to nowhere. I feel it's
a shame that nobody from this list stood in this thread to say that he
will help the kernel team this time, so that the Debian kernel team can
feel there's a real support from "upstream".

Thomas

P.S: Of course, everyone knows that if the patches from J. are finally
accepted, all issues are over, but betting that this will happen before
Squeeze is released is a very dangerous bet.

Re: Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

[Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk]

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 01:51:25AM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> If you didn't see it, you should read the thread "Xen, Squeeze, and
> Beyond" on the debian-devel list that you may have missed:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/thrd2.html#00653
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/03/threads.html#00005
> 
> This clearly shows you what I told you about the lack of support for Xen
> in Debian. What I see is that there's more a lack of communication than
> anything else.
> 
> Debian is like no others distribution, if nobody cares doing the dirty
> work of packaging, some software can go away from the archive, simply
> because of the lack of task force. The disaster of the Lenny dom0 with
> no upstream support should be avoided at all costs, and the only way to
> do so is by having people working on Xen involved in Debian. Otherwise,
> the Debian kernel team will simply hate working on maintaining a Xen
> dom0 (which is already the case, I believe).

Oh, that is unfortunate.
> 
> Any lack of responsiveness of everyone can lead to nowhere. I feel it's
> a shame that nobody from this list stood in this thread to say that he
> will help the kernel team this time, so that the Debian kernel team can
> feel there's a real support from "upstream".

Well, I am pretty committed to fixing issues with the pv-ops kernel.
I must have missed the part about helping the kernel team as I would
gladly help with that, thought the kernel team would need some patience
with me as I also working on stabilizing and helping to upstream the
pvops branch, and that does take time. Thought isn't Bastian working on
this? I saw some of his patches and I believe he was actively trying to
get X to work?

But I am not very good at the packaging aspect and I thought the
outstanding issue was that there wasn't a sponsor for this?

Re: Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

[Ian Campbell]

Excuse me but I for one have stood up several times on various Debian
threads (including the exact thread you link to) to commit to working
with/on the kernel to maintain the Xen patches and that is well known to
(and acknowledge by) the debian-kernel team.

Furthermore Bastian (one of the key debian-kernel developers) has
already added a xen flavour to the debian-kernel tree and has been
actively pulling in domain 0 patches from Jeremy's tree and reporting
issues on this list etc.

An initial version of the domain 0 patches were uploaded to Debian Sid
with 2.6.32-10 two weeks ago and fixes are queuing up for 2.6.32-11 in
the debian-kernel SVN repository.

The debian-kernel team seem happy with the commitment to long term
support for 2.6.32 both from kernel.org and xen.org and there are
developers actively working on getting stuff ready.

So, please don't doom-monger -- it helps no one. Those developers who
are interested in Xen+Debian are already working on such things without
crying about how the sky falling.

Ian.

On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 18:51 +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote: 
> Hi there,
> 
> If you didn't see it, you should read the thread "Xen, Squeeze, and
> Beyond" on the debian-devel list that you may have missed:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/thrd2.html#00653
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/03/threads.html#00005
> 
> This clearly shows you what I told you about the lack of support for Xen
> in Debian. What I see is that there's more a lack of communication than
> anything else.
> 
> Debian is like no others distribution, if nobody cares doing the dirty
> work of packaging, some software can go away from the archive, simply
> because of the lack of task force. The disaster of the Lenny dom0 with
> no upstream support should be avoided at all costs, and the only way to
> do so is by having people working on Xen involved in Debian. Otherwise,
> the Debian kernel team will simply hate working on maintaining a Xen
> dom0 (which is already the case, I believe).
> 
> Any lack of responsiveness of everyone can lead to nowhere. I feel it's
> a shame that nobody from this list stood in this thread to say that he
> will help the kernel team this time, so that the Debian kernel team can
> feel there's a real support from "upstream".
> 
> Thomas
> 
> P.S: Of course, everyone knows that if the patches from J. are finally
> accepted, all issues are over, but betting that this will happen before
> Squeeze is released is a very dangerous bet.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel

Re: Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

[Thomas Goirand]

Ian Campbell wrote:
> Excuse me but I for one have stood up several times on various Debian
> threads (including the exact thread you link to) to commit to working
> with/on the kernel to maintain the Xen patches and that is well known to
> (and acknowledge by) the debian-kernel team.
> 
> Furthermore Bastian (one of the key debian-kernel developers) has
> already added a xen flavour to the debian-kernel tree and has been
> actively pulling in domain 0 patches from Jeremy's tree and reporting
> issues on this list etc.
> 
> An initial version of the domain 0 patches were uploaded to Debian Sid
> with 2.6.32-10 two weeks ago and fixes are queuing up for 2.6.32-11 in
> the debian-kernel SVN repository.
> 
> The debian-kernel team seem happy with the commitment to long term
> support for 2.6.32 both from kernel.org and xen.org and there are
> developers actively working on getting stuff ready.
> 
> So, please don't doom-monger -- it helps no one. Those developers who
> are interested in Xen+Debian are already working on such things without
> crying about how the sky falling.
> 
> Ian.

Thanks for saying this out loud, this is not at all the impression I had
reading different thread, and I'm happy if I was wrong.

Thomas

Re: Is Xen support in Debian going to nowhere?

[Martinx - ジェームズ]

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For sure!

 I believe that this confusion and these doubts are just a phase, because of
the current stage of development of Xen.

 When Linus accept the dom0 support in the mainline Linux, the Xen team
focus only on the new version (paravirt_ops) and leave the old versions in
the past, add the support for Xen in any distribution will be a relative
trivial task.

 These rumors are normal, because people fear they will not have the Xen on
Debian, but it will not happen, believe me.

Cheers!
Thiago

On 30 March 2010 15:11, Ian Campbell <Ian.Campbell@citrix.com> wrote:

> Excuse me but I for one have stood up several times on various Debian
> threads (including the exact thread you link to) to commit to working
> with/on the kernel to maintain the Xen patches and that is well known to
> (and acknowledge by) the debian-kernel team.
>
> Furthermore Bastian (one of the key debian-kernel developers) has
> already added a xen flavour to the debian-kernel tree and has been
> actively pulling in domain 0 patches from Jeremy's tree and reporting
> issues on this list etc.
>
> An initial version of the domain 0 patches were uploaded to Debian Sid
> with 2.6.32-10 two weeks ago and fixes are queuing up for 2.6.32-11 in
> the debian-kernel SVN repository.
>
> The debian-kernel team seem happy with the commitment to long term
> support for 2.6.32 both from kernel.org and xen.org and there are
> developers actively working on getting stuff ready.
>
> So, please don't doom-monger -- it helps no one. Those developers who
> are interested in Xen+Debian are already working on such things without
> crying about how the sky falling.
>
> Ian.
>
> On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 18:51 +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > If you didn't see it, you should read the thread "Xen, Squeeze, and
> > Beyond" on the debian-devel list that you may have missed:
> >
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/thrd2.html#00653
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/03/threads.html#00005
> >
> > This clearly shows you what I told you about the lack of support for Xen
> > in Debian. What I see is that there's more a lack of communication than
> > anything else.
> >
> > Debian is like no others distribution, if nobody cares doing the dirty
> > work of packaging, some software can go away from the archive, simply
> > because of the lack of task force. The disaster of the Lenny dom0 with
> > no upstream support should be avoided at all costs, and the only way to
> > do so is by having people working on Xen involved in Debian. Otherwise,
> > the Debian kernel team will simply hate working on maintaining a Xen
> > dom0 (which is already the case, I believe).
> >
> > Any lack of responsiveness of everyone can lead to nowhere. I feel it's
> > a shame that nobody from this list stood in this thread to say that he
> > will help the kernel team this time, so that the Debian kernel team can
> > feel there's a real support from "upstream".
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > P.S: Of course, everyone knows that if the patches from J. are finally
> > accepted, all issues are over, but betting that this will happen before
> > Squeeze is released is a very dangerous bet.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xen-devel mailing list
> > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-devel mailing list
> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
>

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