[parisc-linux] C180: no real progress :-(

[parisc-linux] C180: no real progress :-(

[Reinhard Gimbel]

Hi friends !

In the past days I learned a lot about HP workstations and the 
Linux port to hppa/parisc.

After I could exchange my first used C180 (256 MB, 2*4,5 GB 
FWSCSI HDD, GRAPHICS(3) accelerated graphics) by a newer model 
of the same series (C180) I tried to get palinux-0.9.2 
up-n-running on that box.

Few weeks ago I posted some thoughts I had in this mailing list 
because palinux-0.9.2 was crashing on the older box all the 
time during installation.

Some kernel messages led my in the false direction. I thought 
DINO (h/w v2.1; or better the software glue of DINO) was the 
root cause of "my" problems. This box had firmware v2.7.

Installation via network/NFS did not work because of problems; 
With the older box i tried many things (100Mbps, 10Mbps, Hub, 
cross-over cable) but no success ...

After I got the replacement on Friday (DINO v3.1 [which should 
be ok. according the kernel messages ...], firmware v5.1) the 
problems are still present.

BTW: Grant, you are right ! But newer firmware seems not to 
solve the problem ...

I tried serial console device as well as STI console [PS/2 
keyboard/mouse, GRAPHICS(0) with PC-style video monitor via HP 
adaptor connector].

The C180 boots palinux-0.9.2 from CD (additional drive at 
SESCSI). The system crashes either during kernel/driver 
installation (1st stage) or during "software" installation (2nd 
stage).

Only one time I could get the system installed from serial 
console. As I tried to switch to STI console the keyboard port  
problem hit me; The only chance was to reboot the box. As a 
result the root filesystem was corrupted so hard that fsck had 
problems tpo repair the corrupted filesystem ... :-(

At this point I have some (foe me) important questions:

Has anybody a running C180 under palinux-0.9.2 ?

Has anybody similar problems with other HP w/s and could solve 
those problems ? How solved ?

Some hints to the kernel guys:

[1] Try to fix the keyboard port problem ! I don't know how 
many reboots I had top handle this weekend but un-/replugging 
the keyboard is very boring ... :-)

[2] Try to get full support of any key (at least german 
keyboard support lacks on essential things ...) eg. no 
pipe/vertical bar; no support of capslock (keyboard unusable 
after accidently hit capslock; nothing helped; un-/replug, too)

[3] Sometimes I could see a message like
"ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: No such device or address"
short time before the C180 crashed. Any idea ?

Some hints to the system guys:

[1] Do real disabling of "dhcp-client" if it is set to "no" 
during installation. (Those kernel message caused by 
dhcp-client are boring; try it with open editor; great ;-)

[2] Try to include a date check/set into the installation 
routine; user should be informed about hardware clock setting)


I'm still trying to get that beast (= my C180) up-n-running !

Any help would be great !


Reinhard.

Re: [parisc-linux] C180: no real progress :-(

[Richard Hirst]

On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 10:38:13PM +0200, Reinhard Gimbel wrote:
> The C180 boots palinux-0.9.2 from CD (additional drive at 
> SESCSI). The system crashes either during kernel/driver 
> installation (1st stage) or during "software" installation (2nd 
> stage).

I have heard of a C160 with what could be similar problems.  The C160
has internal diff scsi drives, and it seems that using that interface
causes disk corruption.  The only way he managed an install was to
disconnect all devices from the diff scsi interface, and install to
disks on the external scsi.  Is that something you can try easily?
Note, he had to physically disconnect the diff disks, it wasn't sufficient
to simply not use them.

What scsi interfaces does that box have anyway?  Boot up msgs should
mention chip numbers - 53c710, 53c720, etc.

> [1] Try to fix the keyboard port problem ! I don't know how 
> many reboots I had top handle this weekend but un-/replugging 
> the keyboard is very boring ... :-)

That problem is being actively worked on.

> [2] Try to get full support of any key (at least german 
> keyboard support lacks on essential things ...) eg. no 
> pipe/vertical bar; no support of capslock (keyboard unusable 
> after accidently hit capslock; nothing helped; un-/replug, too)

Hmm, yeah; I had a UK keyboard where pipe key didn't work.  I got it
with <alt>+124 on the numeric pad, or with <alt-gr> and the key to
the left of '1' (back-quote, etc).  Obviously needs fixing though.

> [3] Sometimes I could see a message like
> "ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: No such device or address"
> short time before the C180 crashed. Any idea ?

That's a feature of the installer ;)  Happens on all archs and is harmless.

> Some hints to the system guys:
> 
> [1] Do real disabling of "dhcp-client" if it is set to "no" 
> during installation. (Those kernel message caused by 
> dhcp-client are boring; try it with open editor; great ;-)

That is a problem with the dhcp-client package, again common to all
archs.  The solution is "rm /etc/rc?.d/*dhcp-client".  It has been
discussed on the debian-boot list, and hopefully someone will fix it.
It has been suggested that we switch back to using pump.  There is a
new version of dhcp-client in experimental, but it is much bigger, which
causes problems for people that boot from floppies, at least.

> [2] Try to include a date check/set into the installation 
> routine; user should be informed about hardware clock setting)

I agree, telling what the time is in GMT and in your timezone without
giving you a chance to do anything about it is a little pointless.  You
can use the firmware to set it correctly before you start, but if you are
like me you always forget until it is too late.

Richard

[parisc-linux] J series question

[Tony Mori]

Can J282 CPU be put into J200, or J210? Is there any corss-reference
available for CPU boards and what machines they can fit into?


Tony

Re: [parisc-linux] J series question

[Thomas Marteau]

Hi Tony,

According to
http://hwdb.parisc-linux.org/view.php3?type=machine&name=J282 , the
model is a 780 Firhawk with a PCXU cpu. As far as I know, it is onee of
the model in 64 bits. And the J200/210 are 770 models with PCXT'. In my
opinion, you should not do that but I may be mistaken.
 
> Can J282 CPU be put into J200, or J210? Is there any corss-reference
> available for CPU boards and what machines they can fit into?
 
Thomas.
ESIEE Team

Re: [parisc-linux] C180: no real progress :-(

[Reinhard Gimbel]

On Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 00:13 Richard Hirst wrote:

> I have heard of a C160 with what could be similar problems. 
> The C160 has internal diff scsi drives, and it seems that
> using that interface causes disk corruption.  The only way he
> managed an install was to disconnect all devices from the
> diff scsi interface, and install to disks on the external
> scsi.  Is that something you can try easily? Note, he had to
> physically disconnect the diff disks, it wasn't sufficient to
> simply not use them.

Any idea how one could connect the drives without those 
expensive Fast/Wide SCSI cables (The box I got is from a local 
2nd hand computer dealer for approx USD 50 ...)

What do you mean with "external" SCSI ? If I connect the drives 
to the connector on the backplane isn't it the same FWSCSI 
channel as the internal one (which might be buggy) ? Or is it a 
seperate channel ?

Should I use one of the PCI slots to install a seperate SCSI 
host adaptor ? Could be an idea but actually I don't have an 
extra FWSCSI PCI adaptor on hand (I would like to use the 
internal 4.5 GB FWSCSI drives ...)

I also don't have a seperate external FWSCSI box where I could 
put the C180 internal drives in. (Again, I'm doing this as a 
hobby and my wife will propably kill me if I buy boxes and 
cables for lets say USD 150 ... ;-)

Isn't there another way to go ?

On that box was HP-UX 10.20 installed and the hardware is still 
the same. So there must/could be a software solution, right ?

BTW: Is that a problem of C1xx only ? Or is that problem known 
with other HP PA-Risc workstations, too ?

> What scsi interfaces does that box have anyway?  Boot up msgs
> should mention chip numbers - 53c710, 53c720, etc.

According to the boot message its a 53c710 for the SESCSI 
channel and a 53c720 for the FWSCSI channel

> > [2] Try to get full support of any key (at least german
> > keyboard support lacks on essential things ...) eg. no
> > pipe/vertical bar; no support of capslock (keyboard
> > unusable after accidently hit capslock; nothing helped;
> > un-/replug, too)
>
> Hmm, yeah; I had a UK keyboard where pipe key didn't work.  I
> got it with <alt>+124 on the numeric pad, or with <alt-gr>
> and the key to the left of '1' (back-quote, etc).  Obviously
> needs fixing though.

Thanks for that hint with <alt>-xzy ! Seems to be the same as 
with good old DOS boxes, right ? Why I did not try that ?

> > [3] Sometimes I could see a message like
> > "ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: No such device or address"
> > short time before the C180 crashed. Any idea ?
>
> That's a feature of the installer ;)  Happens on all archs
> and is harmless.

The problem is that one isn't sure if that could be the core 
reason or not, you know ...

I'm not used to use Debian Linux. It's the first time to use 
Debian so I couldn't have much experience in that ...

> > [1] Do real disabling of "dhcp-client" if it is set to "no"
> > during installation. (Those kernel message caused by
> > dhcp-client are boring; try it with open editor; great ;-)
>
> That is a problem with the dhcp-client package, again common
> to all archs.  The solution is "rm /etc/rc?.d/*dhcp-client". 
> It has been discussed on the debian-boot list, and hopefully
> someone will fix it. It has been suggested that we switch
> back to using pump.  There is a new version of dhcp-client in
> experimental, but it is much bigger, which causes problems
> for people that boot from floppies, at least.

I know the SuSE Linux approach of init. I have to get familiar 
with the Debian/Redhat way to do it ...


Now some philosophy:

On the other hand one has to fight on many different frontiers 
if one is using uncommon things :-)

Of course it's easier to go the known way. But why not to go 
the unknown way ? There are many things to discover ...


Thanks a lot ! There's hope :-) There's light on the end of the 
dark tunnel :-)


Reinhard.

Re: [parisc-linux] C180: no real progress :-(

[Martin K. Petersen]

>>>>> "Reinhard" == Reinhard Gimbel <Reinhard.Gimbel@freenet.de> writes:

>> I have heard of a C160 with what could be similar problems.  The
>> C160 has internal diff scsi drives, and it seems that using that
>> interface causes disk corruption.  The only way he managed an
>> install was to disconnect all devices from the diff scsi interface,
>> and install to disks on the external scsi.  Is that something you
>> can try easily? Note, he had to physically disconnect the diff
>> disks, it wasn't sufficient to simply not use them.

The `external' SCSI Richard is referring to in my C160 is a Symbios
53C875 PCI board.

If you shop for one you have to be careful.  Most PC branded
controllers only support 5V PCI.  You need a controller with 3.3V PCI
support for the C180.  So I ended up buying a couple of Symbios
branded ones.  They support both voltages.

If you want to use the differential drives you got with the box, you
should buy the differential version of the controller.

And you need an external enclosure for the disks as it is close to
impossible to do internal cable routing in the box.  The 53C720 pins
go directly to the I/O bay edge connector.

Another alternative is to shop around for a dead C200/C240/C360 I/O
daughterboard which has an 875 instead of a 720.  That way you can use
the internal disk bay.  But you need Ultra Wide SCSI disks and not
differential ones in that case.

And finally - if you don't feel like spending money - keep bugging
Richard until he fixes the 710/720 problems ;)

-- 
Martin K. Petersen      Cereal Bowl Engineer, Linuxcare, Inc.
http://mkp.net/         SGI XFS, Linux/PA-RISC, GNOME

[parisc-linux] Re: C180: no real progress :-(

[Grant Grundler]

Reinhard Gimbel wrote:
> Few weeks ago I posted some thoughts I had in this mailing list 
> because palinux-0.9.2 was crashing on the older box all the 
> time during installation.

I haven't seen any commits from rbrad yet.
I know he's still working on fixing the ccio driver bugs.

> 
> Some kernel messages led my in the false direction. I thought 
> DINO (h/w v2.1; or better the software glue of DINO) was the 
> root cause of "my" problems. This box had firmware v2.7.

please please please update the firmware on this box. See the parisc-linux
FAQ for details on how to upgrade firmware. You don't want to chase
data corruption problems due to the old dino. Upgrading the firmware
will prevent the scenario.  The box is useful but one can't use PCI
devices (except graphics) in it.

> Installation via network/NFS did not work because of problems; 
> With the older box i tried many things (100Mbps, 10Mbps, Hub, 
> cross-over cable) but no success ...

This should work. Make sure link lights on  the hub/switch and 
C180 are on. Shouldn't need a cross-over cable if you have a hub.
Othwerwise, review the palo parameters you are using.

> 
> After I got the replacement on Friday (DINO v3.1 [which should 
> be ok. according the kernel messages ...], firmware v5.1) the 
> problems are still present.
> 
> BTW: Grant, you are right ! But newer firmware seems not to 
> solve the problem ...

No. But it avoids some other ones.

grant

Grant Grundler
parisc-linux {PCI|IOMMU|SMP} hacker
+1.408.447.7253