RedHat 8

RedHat 8

[Paul Kraus]

What does everyone think of RedHat 8.

Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com

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RE: RedHat 8

[Ken Boyer]

So far, so good.

The subscription service works very well.

USB 2.0 support is nice - allows easier installation on newer hardware.

Apache 2.0 - so far it is working well although there are some subtle
differences in the conf file that I was used to with 1.3

No disk partition tool.

Haven't tried Evolution yet but it is said to have similar features as
Outlook....when I have a couple days to kill....some day.

Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kraus
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:33 AM
To: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: RedHat 8


What does everyone think of RedHat 8.

Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com

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RE: RedHat 8

[Paul Kraus]

No disk partition tool.
-=-=-=
So you have no options during install on how you want your drive
partitioned? 

Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kraus
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:33 AM
To: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: RedHat 8


What does everyone think of RedHat 8.

Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com

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RE: RedHat 8

[Jude DaShiell]

Is redhat 8.0 able to make an iomega zip 650 usb cdrw drive burn as well
as read?  redhat 7.2 wasn't able.




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RE: RedHat 8

[Don Petrowski]

On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 07:49, Ken Boyer wrote:
> 
> No disk partition tool.
> 
Disk Druid and fdisk are on the install as always.  You have to use
custom install to set them up manually, otherwise install sets it up for
you.

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Re: RedHat 8

[Paul Furness]

> What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
> 

I have negative feelings about it.

I nuked my workstation and installed RH8.0 from scratch. The
installation was a lot nicer than previous versions, but once it had
installed I found that, for me at least, there was a lot missing. The
window manager had changed again (I'm not entirely sure why). Lots of
apps seemed to be missing, and the impression I got was that a lot of
multimedia stuff particularly had been removed from the default set up.
I did a custom install and still found it lacking a lot of nice
multi-media stuff.

On the flip side, Gnome 2 is nice, and definitely performs better on my
workstation that 1.4. OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 ships with it as well, which
is nice, and the icons look lovely.

I struggled against RH8 for about 3 days before giving up, wiping my
hard disk, and putting 7.3 back on here. That's not to say that RH8 is
no good, and it could be that I was just expecting it to behave in a
different way. I had only minor gripes, really, but in my job of
supporting everyone else in the company, I couldn't really afford to be
messing around with my workstation for hours.

If you aren't particularly used to previous versions of Red Hat as a
desktop O/S, you'll probably not find much fault with Red Hat 8.
Personally, I felt (possibly incorrectly) that the customisations which
I likes were not available, so I stopped using it.

I fully intend to build a second machine (or probably a VMWare virtual
machine) using 8 to give it a proper, fair hearing.

Of course, other people may agree with me, so I might not be completely
wrong... :)

Paul.


-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.

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RE: RedHat 8

[Paul Kraus]

What kind of system do you need to be able to run a full Linux
distribution including X in a virtual machine? It seems like the
overhead would kill you.

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Paul Furness
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:56 AM
To: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: RedHat 8


> What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
> 

I have negative feelings about it.

I nuked my workstation and installed RH8.0 from scratch. The
installation was a lot nicer than previous versions, but once it had
installed I found that, for me at least, there was a lot missing. The
window manager had changed again (I'm not entirely sure why). Lots of
apps seemed to be missing, and the impression I got was that a lot of
multimedia stuff particularly had been removed from the default set up.
I did a custom install and still found it lacking a lot of nice
multi-media stuff.

On the flip side, Gnome 2 is nice, and definitely performs better on my
workstation that 1.4. OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 ships with it as well, which
is nice, and the icons look lovely.

I struggled against RH8 for about 3 days before giving up, wiping my
hard disk, and putting 7.3 back on here. That's not to say that RH8 is
no good, and it could be that I was just expecting it to behave in a
different way. I had only minor gripes, really, but in my job of
supporting everyone else in the company, I couldn't really afford to be
messing around with my workstation for hours.

If you aren't particularly used to previous versions of Red Hat as a
desktop O/S, you'll probably not find much fault with Red Hat 8.
Personally, I felt (possibly incorrectly) that the customisations which
I likes were not available, so I stopped using it.

I fully intend to build a second machine (or probably a VMWare virtual
machine) using 8 to give it a proper, fair hearing.

Of course, other people may agree with me, so I might not be completely
wrong... :)

Paul.


-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.

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RE: RedHat 8

[Paul Furness]

Surprisingly, it works ok. It's not quite as fast as a real system, but
it is certainly handy for testing the functionality of stuff.

I _have_ done this on a P3-500 with 256M Ram and some disk, but it's not
_really_ usable with less than a 1GHz CPU and 512M Ram. The memory is
the key, since you have to dedicate a chunk of memory to the virtual
machine which then can't be used by anything outside the VM. You want to
make sure it has enough memory not to need to swap. Since you  probably
want to give at least 128M to your VM, it follows that you must have at
least 256M to keep your real system going as well. If you are going to
do anything interesting, you'll probably need 512M.

My current workstation on which I daily use Windows 2000 in a virtual
machine is a Pentium 4 1.9GHz with 512MB RAM and an IDE Hard disk. (It's
a DELL Precision 340, if you're interested). I'm shortly hoping to get s
dual Athlon system (as part of a trial we are doing) which will, I
think, cope even better with the virtual machine concept - one CPU will
look after the VM while the other looks after the real one.

Incidentally, you need a fair amount of hard disk to do this; it _is_
possible to share space, but it's much more reliable to give each VM
it's own local hard drive space, which is actually a virtual hard disk
-  it's really just a big file on your host machines file system.

The best VM I have found so far is called VMWare (www.vmware.com). It's
not cheap ($300 or so for a license) but one license covers as many
virtual machines as you want to run on your PC. I currently have three
VMs set up on mine - one running Win98, one running Win2k and one for
messing around with Linux builds.  I don't usually run more than one at
a time, though - that really would hammer the system!

Inside the VM, you can run pretty much any O/S that runs on a normal PC
- from DOS through Windows 3.x, 9.x, NT, 2k, XP, NET to Linux, BSD, and
Novel. You can even try others, and they sometimes work, even although
not directly supported by VMWare, because VMWare emulates a real PC for
the software; Windows has no idea that it's running in a window under
linux.

VMWare doesn't support Joysticks, though, and it doesn't often work well
with sound - at least, not in the places I have tried it.

Paul.



On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 14:03, Paul Kraus wrote:
> What kind of system do you need to be able to run a full Linux
> distribution including X in a virtual machine? It seems like the
> overhead would kill you.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org
> [mailto:linux-newbie-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Paul Furness
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:56 AM
> To: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: RedHat 8
> 
> 
> > What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
> > 
> 
> I have negative feelings about it.
> 
> I nuked my workstation and installed RH8.0 from scratch. The
> installation was a lot nicer than previous versions, but once it had
> installed I found that, for me at least, there was a lot missing. The
> window manager had changed again (I'm not entirely sure why). Lots of
> apps seemed to be missing, and the impression I got was that a lot of
> multimedia stuff particularly had been removed from the default set up.
> I did a custom install and still found it lacking a lot of nice
> multi-media stuff.
> 
> On the flip side, Gnome 2 is nice, and definitely performs better on my
> workstation that 1.4. OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 ships with it as well, which
> is nice, and the icons look lovely.
> 
> I struggled against RH8 for about 3 days before giving up, wiping my
> hard disk, and putting 7.3 back on here. That's not to say that RH8 is
> no good, and it could be that I was just expecting it to behave in a
> different way. I had only minor gripes, really, but in my job of
> supporting everyone else in the company, I couldn't really afford to be
> messing around with my workstation for hours.
> 
> If you aren't particularly used to previous versions of Red Hat as a
> desktop O/S, you'll probably not find much fault with Red Hat 8.
> Personally, I felt (possibly incorrectly) that the customisations which
> I likes were not available, so I stopped using it.
> 
> I fully intend to build a second machine (or probably a VMWare virtual
> machine) using 8 to give it a proper, fair hearing.
> 
> Of course, other people may agree with me, so I might not be completely
> wrong... :)
> 
> Paul.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Paul Furness
> 
> Systems Manager
> 
> 2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie"
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> info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
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> 
> -
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> 
-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.

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Re: RedHat 8

[Haines Brown]

I assume the answer to the question depends on one's work habits. What
worries me in terms of my own are three things, and I'd like feedback
on them if possible.

First, I do most of my work from the keyboard rather than mouse, and
so fear a GUI that presumes I'm a mouseaholic. For example, I usually
delete icons from the desktop and hide the survivers under emacs, and
never use them. Does my keyboard dependency become a problem under RH
8.0?

Second, while far from a Linux expert, I am used to configuring
things, usually by editing rc files or sometimes by configuration
utilities. Does RH 8.0 in any way constrict one ability to custom
configure applications by hand?

Third, as for installation, I hope there remains an expert procedure
that allows you to partition at will and install whatever applications
you want. I need assurance that this is so because of the emphasis on
automated installation is a little intimidating.

I'm not a happy camper with RH 7.3 (7.2 was much better as far as I'm
concerned), and look to RH 8.0 to resolve some of the problems (so
many things just don't work right that I don't have the time to fix
them all). A null version of anything is risky, but I've not heard
horror stories about RH 8.0. I hope this side of things will be a part
of the discussion.
  

Haines Brown
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Re: RedHat 8

[Frank Roberts - SOTL]

If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3 
then 
YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0.

Frank


On Wednesday 23 October 2002 09:33, Haines Brown wrote:
> I assume the answer to the question depends on one's work habits. What
> worries me in terms of my own are three things, and I'd like feedback
> on them if possible.
>
> First, I do most of my work from the keyboard rather than mouse, and
> so fear a GUI that presumes I'm a mouseaholic. For example, I usually
> delete icons from the desktop and hide the survivers under emacs, and
> never use them. Does my keyboard dependency become a problem under RH
> 8.0?
>
> Second, while far from a Linux expert, I am used to configuring
> things, usually by editing rc files or sometimes by configuration
> utilities. Does RH 8.0 in any way constrict one ability to custom
> configure applications by hand?
>
> Third, as for installation, I hope there remains an expert procedure
> that allows you to partition at will and install whatever applications
> you want. I need assurance that this is so because of the emphasis on
> automated installation is a little intimidating.
>
> I'm not a happy camper with RH 7.3 (7.2 was much better as far as I'm
> concerned), and look to RH 8.0 to resolve some of the problems (so
> many things just don't work right that I don't have the time to fix
> them all). A null version of anything is risky, but I've not heard
> horror stories about RH 8.0. I hope this side of things will be a part
> of the discussion.
>
>
> Haines Brown
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: RedHat 8

[Haines Brown]

> If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3 
> then 
> YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0.

Frank,

Your other post indicates that the personal version of RH 8.0 did a
hatchet job on KDE, but "screwing up gnome" is a bit vague. My
reaction to 7.3 was based entirely on stability issues, perhaps
related to gnome (and a flakey video driver).

Are you saying that gnome 2.0 in RH8.0 is inferior to gnome 1.4? If
so, do mean you find it unstable or that its functionality is buggy?

Haines Brown 

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Re: RedHat 8

[Frank Roberts - SOTL]

I am stating IN NO UNCERTANT TERNS THAT THERE IS NO GONOME GUI IN RH 8.0 just 
like ther is no KDE GUI.

RH 8.0 uses a new RH GUI which has appears to be 90% Gnome but is not Gnome. 
(Sorry I forgot the name of the GUI just like I am trying to forget RH 8.0)

Frank 

 
On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:57, Haines Brown wrote:
> > If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3
> > then
> > YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0.
>
> Frank,
>
> Your other post indicates that the personal version of RH 8.0 did a
> hatchet job on KDE, but "screwing up gnome" is a bit vague. My
> reaction to 7.3 was based entirely on stability issues, perhaps
> related to gnome (and a flakey video driver).
>
> Are you saying that gnome 2.0 in RH8.0 is inferior to gnome 1.4? If
> so, do mean you find it unstable or that its functionality is buggy?
>
> Haines Brown



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Re: RedHat 8

[Bryan Simmons]

But you can download the other GUIs right?  And install them?
Speaking of this, what do you guys think of the Ximian desktop?


On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 07:39, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote:
> 
> I am stating IN NO UNCERTANT TERNS THAT THERE IS NO GONOME GUI IN RH 8.0 just 
> like ther is no KDE GUI.
> 
> RH 8.0 uses a new RH GUI which has appears to be 90% Gnome but is not Gnome. 
> (Sorry I forgot the name of the GUI just like I am trying to forget RH 8.0)
> 
> Frank 
> 
>  
> On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:57, Haines Brown wrote:
> > > If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3
> > > then
> > > YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0.
> >
> > Frank,
> >
> > Your other post indicates that the personal version of RH 8.0 did a
> > hatchet job on KDE, but "screwing up gnome" is a bit vague. My
> > reaction to 7.3 was based entirely on stability issues, perhaps
> > related to gnome (and a flakey video driver).
> >
> > Are you saying that gnome 2.0 in RH8.0 is inferior to gnome 1.4? If
> > so, do mean you find it unstable or that its functionality is buggy?
> >
> > Haines Brown
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
-- 
Regards,

Bryan Simmons 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 On Integrity:

 "I'm going to be as good as they let me and
  as mean as they make me, and they all know
  that.  I don't ever lie. If I tell you a
  rooster can fly, get the harness."

   --Burl Cain, Louisiana State Pen Warden
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 

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Re: RedHat 8

[Paul Furness]

You can indeed install pretty much anything. But that starts to get too
technical if aren't technical, and too much hassle if you are technical.
It depends on where you are and what you want. At work, I want to build
workstations for people quickly and efficiently and I need them to work
with basic important functions (office things, email, web browsing) with
the minimum of fuss. I also want to be able to mess around with them if
someone has a specific need (we are a research lab; you wouldn't
_believe_ some of the things these guys want to do...)

I like Ximian. For the most part, Ximian on top of RH 7.3 covers pretty
much all the bases; Ximian covers the holes that Red Hat leaves fairly
nicely. As I have had occasion to comment elsewhere, Ximian evolution is
an _excellent_ mail client. It copes nicely with the huge volumes of
email I get.

P.

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 14:25, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> But you can download the other GUIs right?  And install them?
> Speaking of this, what do you guys think of the Ximian desktop?
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 07:39, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote:
> > 
> > I am stating IN NO UNCERTANT TERNS THAT THERE IS NO GONOME GUI IN RH 8.0 just 
> > like ther is no KDE GUI.
> > 
> > RH 8.0 uses a new RH GUI which has appears to be 90% Gnome but is not Gnome. 
> > (Sorry I forgot the name of the GUI just like I am trying to forget RH 8.0)
> > 
> > Frank 
> > 
> >  
> > On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:57, Haines Brown wrote:
> > > > If you think RH 7.2 is better than RH 7.3
> > > > then
> > > > YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE HAPPY WITH RH 8.0.
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > > Your other post indicates that the personal version of RH 8.0 did a
> > > hatchet job on KDE, but "screwing up gnome" is a bit vague. My
> > > reaction to 7.3 was based entirely on stability issues, perhaps
> > > related to gnome (and a flakey video driver).
> > >
> > > Are you saying that gnome 2.0 in RH8.0 is inferior to gnome 1.4? If
> > > so, do mean you find it unstable or that its functionality is buggy?
> > >
> > > Haines Brown
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> > the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> > More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> > Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Bryan Simmons 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
>  On Integrity:
> 
>  "I'm going to be as good as they let me and
>   as mean as they make me, and they all know
>   that.  I don't ever lie. If I tell you a
>   rooster can fly, get the harness."
> 
>    --Burl Cain, Louisiana State Pen Warden
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 
-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.

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Re: RedHat 8

[Frank Roberts - SOTL]

Not always.
Since I travel a lot and I am seldom at one location I normally use a dial up 
connection.
Down load time for many of the components is normally in the 6 to 24 hour 
range.
At the last linux meeting I attempted to down load RH using a T3 line. 
Unfortunately there were so many others that were attempting to down load 
major programs that in 1 & 1/2 hours I did not succeed.

Point is downloading for some people can be a very non profitable daunting 
experience.

Then after you down load the components you must integrate them. 
For the beginner and lower levels intermediates this may be as impossible as 
brain the normal techie performing brain surgery in the next hour and 
producing satisfactory results in providing a positive benefit to the 
patient.

Thanks

Frank

On Thursday 24 October 2002 09:58, Paul Furness wrote:
> You can indeed install pretty much anything. But that starts to get too
> technical if aren't technical, and too much hassle if you are technical.
> It depends on where you are and what you want. At work, I want to build
> workstations for people quickly and efficiently and I need them to work
> with basic important functions (office things, email, web browsing) with
> the minimum of fuss. I also want to be able to mess around with them if
> someone has a specific need (we are a research lab; you wouldn't
> _believe_ some of the things these guys want to do...)
>
> I like Ximian. For the most part, Ximian on top of RH 7.3 covers pretty
> much all the bases; Ximian covers the holes that Red Hat leaves fairly
> nicely. As I have had occasion to comment elsewhere, Ximian evolution is
> an _excellent_ mail client. It copes nicely with the huge volumes of
> email I get.
>

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Re: RedHat 8

[Paulo Jorge]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 487 bytes --]

On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 07:39:41AM -0400, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote:
> I am stating IN NO UNCERTANT TERNS THAT THERE IS NO GONOME GUI IN RH 8.0 just 
> like ther is no KDE GUI.

In RedHat 8.0 there is a KDE GUI and there is a Gnome GUI. The only fact
is that RedHat replace both the kde and the gnome default theme by a
theme design by them. If you don't like just switch the theme...
--
Paulo Jorge Jesus Silva
perl -we "print 'paulojjs' . (reverse 'tp.letagarb@') . \"\n\""

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: RedHat 8

[Don Petrowski]

I loaded Psyche on a Gateway Laptop 366Mhz Pentium, 96 MB Ram, 11GB Hard
Drive.  It's alittle confusing switching between Gnome and KDE, they
look identical.  I had 1 issue.  Mozilla would not work with the
neomagic display adapter.  I went and got a beta version of mozilla,
1.2, compiled it and it repaired the problem.  I'd have to say I like
it, and it is a step toward the desktop market.

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Re: RedHat 8

[Carl]

I did a fresh install last night on an Athlon 700Mhz with 256Mb and it seems ok.

I managed to install and get apache, php, bind, mysql, pop3, sendmail all setup within
a few hours so i was pleased.

I noted that the desktops have been pared back a bit but some digging in the bin dirs
i found some of the "missing" apps like term emulators etc...

Evolution was easy to setup a simple pop3 account. Although it is a  little slow
to load (possibly cloned outlook a little to closely).

First Impressions are good for me.

--
Carl

At 08:33 23/10/2002 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
>What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
>
>Paul Kraus
>Network Administrator
>PEL Supply Company
>216.267.5775 Voice
>216-267-6176 Fax
>www.pelsupply.com
>
>-
>To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
>the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs 

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Re: RedHat 8

[Frank Roberts - SOTL]

First the major change in RH 5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0 to 8.0 appear to be major 
changes in the RH side of the software meaning major changes in the 
installation and configuration programs.

The changes in x.0 to x.2 to x.3 appear to be changes in the content and 
progressive increases (sometimes) in stability. 

For RH 7.3 to RH 8.0 the kernel was increased to 2.4.18 from 2.4.3 (I believe 
2.4.3 is correct although it may be incorrect.).
Open Office replaced Star Office
and 
a hatchet job was done to KDE and KDE programs. There is no more KDE.

Considering if you had an official copy of RH7.3 installed you could then 
automaticall update most programs then the only advantage RH 8.0 would bring 
to your system would be the updated kernel and the new configuration program. 

As for as the programs which you can not automatically update an inspection 
shows most of the GUI programs appear to be KDE the very programs RH left out 
of RH 8.0.

Bottom line RH 8.0 Personal is not half as good as RH 7.3 Personal.
 
I have no idea the status of the profession edition is because it cost $150 
versus $40 for the personal. Note RH 8.0 Personal is cheaper than RH 7.3 
Personal which was $55.

I would recommend switching to Suse which is in some ways a more advanced 
distribution than RH except for Yast2. If you want to do a standard 
configuration with Suse but if you have a oddball or personalized 
configuration well you may experience certain difficulties.

As far as RH new GUI it appears to be nothing more than a screwed up version 
of Gnome.

Fortunally I have 2 HDs for this computer a test HD and the normal operating 
HD. I say fortunately because I installed RH 8.0 on the test HD for 
verification of installation before updating the normal system. The above 
comments come from that test. 

There is only one other comment on this pitiful trash distribution - RH 8.0 I 
wish to make. At our next Linux meeting I will give away the RH 8.0 complete 
box as a boobie prize.

Thanks

Frank  





On Wednesday 23 October 2002 08:33, Paul Kraus wrote:
> What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
>
> Paul Kraus
> Network Administrator
> PEL Supply Company
> 216.267.5775 Voice
> 216-267-6176 Fax
> www.pelsupply.com
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs

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RE: RedHat 8

[Paul Kraus]

4 for and 1 against. You really slammed it. Can I inquire as to why you
like suse? I have only used mandrake 7 and 8, RedHat 6 briefly, 7.3 now.

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Roberts - SOTL [mailto:sotl155360@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 4:25 PM
To: Paul Kraus; linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: RedHat 8


First the major change in RH 5.0 to 6.0 to 7.0 to 8.0 appear to be major

changes in the RH side of the software meaning major changes in the 
installation and configuration programs.

The changes in x.0 to x.2 to x.3 appear to be changes in the content and

progressive increases (sometimes) in stability. 

For RH 7.3 to RH 8.0 the kernel was increased to 2.4.18 from 2.4.3 (I
believe 
2.4.3 is correct although it may be incorrect.).
Open Office replaced Star Office
and 
a hatchet job was done to KDE and KDE programs. There is no more KDE.

Considering if you had an official copy of RH7.3 installed you could
then 
automaticall update most programs then the only advantage RH 8.0 would
bring 
to your system would be the updated kernel and the new configuration
program. 

As for as the programs which you can not automatically update an
inspection 
shows most of the GUI programs appear to be KDE the very programs RH
left out 
of RH 8.0.

Bottom line RH 8.0 Personal is not half as good as RH 7.3 Personal.
 
I have no idea the status of the profession edition is because it cost
$150 
versus $40 for the personal. Note RH 8.0 Personal is cheaper than RH 7.3

Personal which was $55.

I would recommend switching to Suse which is in some ways a more
advanced 
distribution than RH except for Yast2. If you want to do a standard 
configuration with Suse but if you have a oddball or personalized 
configuration well you may experience certain difficulties.

As far as RH new GUI it appears to be nothing more than a screwed up
version 
of Gnome.

Fortunally I have 2 HDs for this computer a test HD and the normal
operating 
HD. I say fortunately because I installed RH 8.0 on the test HD for 
verification of installation before updating the normal system. The
above 
comments come from that test. 

There is only one other comment on this pitiful trash distribution - RH
8.0 I 
wish to make. At our next Linux meeting I will give away the RH 8.0
complete 
box as a boobie prize.

Thanks

Frank  





On Wednesday 23 October 2002 08:33, Paul Kraus wrote:
> What does everyone think of RedHat 8.
>
> Paul Kraus
> Network Administrator
> PEL Supply Company
> 216.267.5775 Voice
> 216-267-6176 Fax
> www.pelsupply.com
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> linux-newbie" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org 
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs

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Re: RedHat 8

[Frank Roberts - SOTL]

On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:31, Paul Krause wrote:
> 4 for and 1 against. You really slammed it. Can I inquire as to why you
>  like suse?
 
Sorry but being pro Suse was not the intended meaning. In fact that is the 
very inverse of intent.

For Suse
The best set of programs
Against Suse 
The most screwed up configuration program possible.
As I said when I got my first Suse distribution back in the 5.3 days "It is a 
very good European distribution - - - and it should stay in Europe." Major 
point to this is I could not then configure ppp correctly. Well I acquired 
Suse 8.1 and guess what I still can not configure the modem correctly. Also 
it seems that they left kppp out and used some of their weird setup programs 
again. 
Another point setting up my scanner on Suse is so complicated that the whole 
linux club gave up in total complete flustration. By comarsion settion it up 
on RH is a 2 minute command line exercise if you know what you are doing; I 
do not.

For Mandrake 7
I like it but the versions I had were 2 distributions behind times. I got them 
free at our linux club to test.
It seems like a very nice distribution but at the time I thought RH was headed 
in the right direction - that was when RH came out with 7.2.
It looks loke this is where I am heades unless RH strightens itself out. Since 
none of the distributions bring anything major program improvements to the 
part at this time this decision will probable be at least a year into the 
future meaning after the 2.5 core, KDE 3.1 etc.

Why do I trash RH 8.0 so much? 
Well it is because of my expectations.
I expected 8.0 to simply correct the bad parts of RH 7.3 which I think is 
approaching a very decent distribution. 
I did not expect RH to go bonkers and trash KDE.
In general I like the KDE GUI on which I utilize what I feel is the best 
selection of KDE and the Gnome programs.

By correct I mean the following.
Correct the printer problems. When the printer works it it works great in B&W 
but not color. It is a color HP Deskjet. But! If for some reason you have a 
bad print file it will spit out reams of paper and is impossible to reset 
from the GUI. You must go to command line and remember the correct commands.

There is a major set up problems with my HP 6100 scanners. Not a clue what the 
problem all I know is it is a scanner recognition problem. The scanner is an 
HP 6100. RH says it is an HP 2464 or some such.

There is setup problems with XCDRoast. I have this one working.
 
As for the people who like RH I am willing to bet that they also like the 
Gnome GUI.

On this I am willing to make a guess that the real problem is the licensing 
agreement KDE uses and the fact that American industry is so fed up with MS 
and their licensing agreements that RH is removing all vestages of 
commercialization from RH as fast as possible. That being said I find it 
strange that RH used Mozelle which is 95% Netscape which is owned now by AOL. 
I know about the change in licensing for Mozelle but there are probable a 
number of court cases there if push comes to shove. What I suspect the 
situation there is that the equivalent browser, email, et in Gnome are not up 
to Mozelle level yet. If that is true then one should suspect that when they 
are at that level Mozelle will depart. I note this in particular because 
Netscape in my MS box has a nasty habit of reporting in to Net Central 
Command (now part of AOL). Point is I utterly hate programs that utilizes 
large amounts of band width to down load a bunch of commercial crap and which 
one has the suspicion that is being used as a Trojan Horse to scan and report 
which programs are legally on a computer. 

How does this interlate with  RH 8.0?
Well I think it is all related by attitudes on licensing agreements and that 
that attitude is what the real problem with RH 8.0 distribution really is.

Thanks
Frank




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Re: RedHat 8

[Paul Furness]

Hmm, not sure about what Red Hat are trying to do. The reason I ditched
8.0 was that it felt like I was using something from MS. By that I mean
that although it looks pretty at the front, there seems to be a distinct
lack of stuff behind. It also felt a lot more like "This is our product,
this is what you want to do with it" rather than "This is our product,
how would you like it to work for you?" I'll probably get shot down for
saying this without giving specific examples, but isn't it the case that
a GUI is _all_ about look and feel. The look is good, but I really don't
like the feel.

Don't get me wrong, 7.3 is by no means perfect. There are a number of
things about it that give me problems (eg. X crashes every single time I
switch away to a VT and back. This is apparently a drive problem with
DRI graphics cards, and there is no fix). 

But at least I can make 7.3 work for the most part in the way I want it
to. Putting all the Ximian stuff on top of it really makes a huge
difference; Red Hat could pick up a lot of really helpful ideas from
Ximian (mind you, they have their faults too). Ximian's Evolution mail
client is superb, though; it wipes the floor with anything else on
Linux.

I guess it's time to look again at Debian and Mandrake (I haven't played
with them for a couple of years...)

Paul.

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 12:33, Frank Roberts - SOTL wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 October 2002 16:31, Paul Krause wrote:
> > 4 for and 1 against. You really slammed it. Can I inquire as to why you
> >  like suse?
>  
> Sorry but being pro Suse was not the intended meaning. In fact that is the 
> very inverse of intent.
> 
> For Suse
> The best set of programs
> Against Suse 
> The most screwed up configuration program possible.
> As I said when I got my first Suse distribution back in the 5.3 days "It is a 
> very good European distribution - - - and it should stay in Europe." Major 
> point to this is I could not then configure ppp correctly. Well I acquired 
> Suse 8.1 and guess what I still can not configure the modem correctly. Also 
> it seems that they left kppp out and used some of their weird setup programs 
> again. 
> Another point setting up my scanner on Suse is so complicated that the whole 
> linux club gave up in total complete flustration. By comarsion settion it up 
> on RH is a 2 minute command line exercise if you know what you are doing; I 
> do not.
> 
> For Mandrake 7
> I like it but the versions I had were 2 distributions behind times. I got them 
> free at our linux club to test.
> It seems like a very nice distribution but at the time I thought RH was headed 
> in the right direction - that was when RH came out with 7.2.
> It looks loke this is where I am heades unless RH strightens itself out. Since 
> none of the distributions bring anything major program improvements to the 
> part at this time this decision will probable be at least a year into the 
> future meaning after the 2.5 core, KDE 3.1 etc.
> 
> Why do I trash RH 8.0 so much? 
> Well it is because of my expectations.
> I expected 8.0 to simply correct the bad parts of RH 7.3 which I think is 
> approaching a very decent distribution. 
> I did not expect RH to go bonkers and trash KDE.
> In general I like the KDE GUI on which I utilize what I feel is the best 
> selection of KDE and the Gnome programs.
> 
> By correct I mean the following.
> Correct the printer problems. When the printer works it it works great in B&W 
> but not color. It is a color HP Deskjet. But! If for some reason you have a 
> bad print file it will spit out reams of paper and is impossible to reset 
> from the GUI. You must go to command line and remember the correct commands.
> 
> There is a major set up problems with my HP 6100 scanners. Not a clue what the 
> problem all I know is it is a scanner recognition problem. The scanner is an 
> HP 6100. RH says it is an HP 2464 or some such.
> 
> There is setup problems with XCDRoast. I have this one working.
>  
> As for the people who like RH I am willing to bet that they also like the 
> Gnome GUI.
> 
> On this I am willing to make a guess that the real problem is the licensing 
> agreement KDE uses and the fact that American industry is so fed up with MS 
> and their licensing agreements that RH is removing all vestages of 
> commercialization from RH as fast as possible. That being said I find it 
> strange that RH used Mozelle which is 95% Netscape which is owned now by AOL. 
> I know about the change in licensing for Mozelle but there are probable a 
> number of court cases there if push comes to shove. What I suspect the 
> situation there is that the equivalent browser, email, et in Gnome are not up 
> to Mozelle level yet. If that is true then one should suspect that when they 
> are at that level Mozelle will depart. I note this in particular because 
> Netscape in my MS box has a nasty habit of reporting in to Net Central 
> Command (now part of AOL). Point is I utterly hate programs that utilizes 
> large amounts of band width to down load a bunch of commercial crap and which 
> one has the suspicion that is being used as a Trojan Horse to scan and report 
> which programs are legally on a computer. 
> 
> How does this interlate with  RH 8.0?
> Well I think it is all related by attitudes on licensing agreements and that 
> that attitude is what the real problem with RH 8.0 distribution really is.
> 
> Thanks
> Frank
> 

-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely moderate values of 2.

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