[parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Joerg Krebs]

Hello all,
im running a hp 735/125 with a st31200wd 1GB harddisk, connected to the
fast-wide scsi-connector, which run's quit nice.
But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330
disk, but I can't get it be detected by the system, I think i used the
same jumper settings as on the old seagate drive.
at the search for potential boot devices nothing appears.

So perhaps someones uses the same harddisk and can tell me the right
jumper-settings, the disk itself works fine with a normal PC with a
scsi-wide controller.

Thanks for your help

	J. Krebs
-- 

                         ''~``
                        ( o o )
+------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.------------------+
|                                                     |
|                    .oooO                            |
|                    (   )   Oooo.                    |
+---------------------\ (----(   )--------------------+
Joerg Krebs            \_)    ) /
Oettingenstr. 67             (_/
80538 Muenchen
Raum: Z1.16

Tel.: +49-89-2180-9251
Fax.: +49-89-2180-9202

Homepage:
http://www.bmo.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~krebs

------------------------------------------------JK

[parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Joerg Krebs]

Hello all,
im running a hp 735/125 with a st31200wd 1GB harddisk, connected to the
fast-wide scsi-connector, which run's quit nice.
But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330
disk, but I can't get it be detected by the system, I think i used the
same jumper settings as on the old seagate drive.
at the search for potential boot devices nothing appears.

So perhaps someones uses the same harddisk and can tell me the right
jumper-settings, the disk itself works fine with a normal PC with a
scsi-wide controller.

Thanks for your help

        J. Krebs

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Nahkola Mikko]

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 05:44:31PM +0100, ext Joerg Krebs wrote:

> im running a hp 735/125 with a st31200wd 1GB harddisk, connected to the
> fast-wide scsi-connector, which run's quit nice.
> But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330
> disk, but I can't get it be detected by the system, I think i used the
> same jumper settings as on the old seagate drive.
> at the search for potential boot devices nothing appears.

I'd say that probably the IBM disk isn't high-voltage. The 735's 
fast-wide is fast-wide-highvoltage-differential, back then they thought 
that no one in their right minds would try to do FWSE and no one had 
thought about LVD yet, or something...

And IIRC the -wd in the Seagate model code means about that too. I don't 
know about IBM specifically.

> So perhaps someones uses the same harddisk and can tell me the right
> jumper-settings, the disk itself works fine with a normal PC with a
> scsi-wide controller.

Well, if it works in a normal PC, that usually means that it isn't HVD. I 
only know of two HVD adapters for PCs, Adaptec AHA-1744 and 2944, and 
those were always expensive ...

I suppose you could get the disk to work on a single-ended interface or 
get an appropriate EISA card.

Besides, do you mean that the 735 FWD interface works in Linux/parisc 
nowadays? Great... 


-- 
Mikko Nahkola   <mikko.nahkola@nokia.com>
Tre-IN sysadmin <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Joerg Krebs]

Am Fre, 2003-01-10 um 13.42 schrieb Nahkola Mikko:
> On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 05:44:31PM +0100, ext Joerg Krebs wrote:
> 
> > im running a hp 735/125 with a st31200wd 1GB harddisk, connected to the
> > fast-wide scsi-connector, which run's quit nice.
> > But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330
> > disk, but I can't get it be detected by the system, I think i used the
> > same jumper settings as on the old seagate drive.
> > at the search for potential boot devices nothing appears.
> 
> I'd say that probably the IBM disk isn't high-voltage. The 735's 
> fast-wide is fast-wide-highvoltage-differential, back then they thought 
> that no one in their right minds would try to do FWSE and no one had 
> thought about LVD yet, or something...
> 

Yes you are right, I found the HP 735 Hardware manual on the openpa
Webside and there i found that the wide-scsi connector is just for HVD

Do you know if any HVD disk is detected by the hp or are there just some
special disks for the hp ?

> And IIRC the -wd in the Seagate model code means about that too. I don't 
> know about IBM specifically.
> 
> > So perhaps someones uses the same harddisk and can tell me the right
> > jumper-settings, the disk itself works fine with a normal PC with a
> > scsi-wide controller.
> 
> Well, if it works in a normal PC, that usually means that it isn't HVD. I 
> only know of two HVD adapters for PCs, Adaptec AHA-1744 and 2944, and 
> those were always expensive ...
> 
> I suppose you could get the disk to work on a single-ended interface or 
> get an appropriate EISA card.
> 
> Besides, do you mean that the 735 FWD interface works in Linux/parisc 
> nowadays? Great... 
> 

No linux/parisc isn`t working with FWD , I suppose, I run my HP still
under HP-UX, i have another hp 735/99 on which I want to install linux
on it, but there i have se disks in it, for now I'm running linux/parisc
only on a 715/75 with an older version of linux/parisc (the one without
hil mouse support)

Thanks for your help

	J.Krebs

> 
> -- 
> Mikko Nahkola   <mikko.nahkola@nokia.com>
> Tre-IN sysadmin <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>
> _______________________________________________
> parisc-linux mailing list
> parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org
> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/parisc-linux
> 
-- 

                         ''~``
                        ( o o )
+------------------.oooO--(_)--Oooo.------------------+
|                                                     |
|                    .oooO                            |
|                    (   )   Oooo.                    |
+---------------------\ (----(   )--------------------+
Joerg Krebs            \_)    ) /
Oettingenstr. 67             (_/
80538 Muenchen
Raum: Z1.16

Tel.: +49-89-2180-9251
Fax.: +49-89-2180-9202

Homepage:
http://www.bmo.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~krebs

------------------------------------------------JK

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Nahkola Mikko]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 01:58:51PM +0100, ext Joerg Krebs wrote:
> Am Fre, 2003-01-10 um 13.42 schrieb Nahkola Mikko:

> > > im running a hp 735/125 with a st31200wd 1GB harddisk, connected to the
> > > fast-wide scsi-connector, which run's quit nice.
> > > But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330

> > I'd say that probably the IBM disk isn't high-voltage. The 735's 
> > fast-wide is fast-wide-highvoltage-differential, back then they thought 

> Yes you are right, I found the HP 735 Hardware manual on the openpa
> Webside and there i found that the wide-scsi connector is just for HVD
> Do you know if any HVD disk is detected by the hp or are there just some
> special disks for the hp ?

Well, yes on both counts. Any HVD disks should be detected... but at the 
time these boxes were made, there were supposed to be certain differences 
between HP and regular disks. Or maybe that was just HP marketing.

At any rate, there _was_ (and still is, BTW) a way to recognize a HP disk 
by the firmware - and there were differences between "workstation" and 
"server" disks too, _and_ IIRC "workstation" disks weren't "expected to 
work" in servers, the other way round it was "expected to work" but "unsupported" 
or something. Don't remember.

If I only could remember what the exact identification thing was ... 
maybe a letter somewhere in the firmware version string.

But since HP-UX 10.20 by the latest, probably earlier too, some people 
have been using whatever disks they get as long as the SCSI interfaces 
are compatible. I've never heard of problems. 

Me? I recycle old HP disks in PCs... 


-- 
Mikko Nahkola   <mikko.nahkola@nokia.com>
Tre-IN sysadmin <mnahkola@trein.ntc.nokia.com>

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Matthew Wilcox]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 04:58:00PM +0200, Nahkola Mikko wrote:
> Well, yes on both counts. Any HVD disks should be detected... but at the 
> time these boxes were made, there were supposed to be certain differences 
> between HP and regular disks. Or maybe that was just HP marketing.
> 
> At any rate, there _was_ (and still is, BTW) a way to recognize a HP disk 
> by the firmware - and there were differences between "workstation" and 
> "server" disks too, _and_ IIRC "workstation" disks weren't "expected to 
> work" in servers, the other way round it was "expected to work" but "unsupported" 
> or something. Don't remember.

That's right.  HP (in common with other big-iron hardware vendors) has
custom disk firmware which has certain guarantees which are useful for
real world issues but slow down benchmarks.

-- 
"It's not Hollywood.  War is real, war is primarily not about defeat or
victory, it is about death.  I've seen thousands and thousands of dead bodies.
Do you think I want to have an academic debate on this subject?" -- Robert Fisk

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[John David Anglin]

> But now I want to replace the disk with a larger 4,3GB ibm dcas-34330
> disk, but I can't get it be detected by the system, I think i used the
> same jumper settings as on the old seagate drive.
> at the search for potential boot devices nothing appears.

If the ibm drive is not high-voltage differential, you can probably get
a wide to narrow adapter and put it at the end of the narrow SE bus.
Plugging a non-differential drive into a differential bus is not supposed
to damage anything but it does completely disable the bus drivers of
all devices on the bus ;-)

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[John David Anglin]

> Do you know if any HVD disk is detected by the hp or are there just some
> special disks for the hp ?

Don't think so.  I've used several OEM seagate models on the HVD bus.
I've done some hacking of drive tables and sam info.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[John David Anglin]

> At any rate, there _was_ (and still is, BTW) a way to recognize a HP disk 
> by the firmware - and there were differences between "workstation" and 
> "server" disks too, _and_ IIRC "workstation" disks weren't "expected to 
> work" in servers, the other way round it was "expected to work" but "unsupported" 
> or something. Don't remember.

diskinfo prints vendor name and product id.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] ibm-disk on a hp 735/125

[Grant Grundler]

On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 04:58:00PM +0200, Nahkola Mikko wrote:
> time these boxes were made, there were supposed to be certain differences 
> between HP and regular disks. Or maybe that was just HP marketing.

testing. HP tests all it's HPUX products so they are usable in
"High Availability" configurations and work with all HPUX SCSI HBAs.

> At any rate, there _was_ (and still is, BTW) a way to recognize a HP disk 
> by the firmware - and there were differences between "workstation" and 
> "server" disks too, _and_ IIRC "workstation" disks weren't "expected to 
> work" in servers, the other way round it was "expected to work" but "unsupported" 
> or something. Don't remember.

workstation and server disks were for a long time seperate products
and tested seperately.  The reason was cost and time to market.
If you test something rigorously expect the testing  to (a) take longer
and (b) expose problems.

While they might still be seperate products, I think they all go through
the same testing these days - maybe with different hosts/configs.

Testing SCSI disks and SCSI RAID arrays in a multi-initiator
configuration exposes problems workstation/PC users rarely, if ever, see.

> But since HP-UX 10.20 by the latest, probably earlier too, some people 
> have been using whatever disks they get as long as the SCSI interfaces 
> are compatible. I've never heard of problems. 

Well, "works for me" is good enough for most linux users.
It's not when one is involved with any kind of support contract.

hth,
grant