Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Mark Knecht]

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Hi,
   I'm having a great deal of confusion about how Alsa is handling my
MIDI hardware. This is spilling over into unintended consequences in
Rosegarden that I think none of us understand. Couple someone with some
background in this please explain? Thanks.

   I have two 2-port MIDI devices on this system. One is an RME HDSP
9652 with two MIDI ports, and the other is a hot pluggable MidiSport
2x2. I attach two screen shots of kaconnect, one with and one without
the 2x2 plugged in.

   My questions:

1) In the screen shot "without_2x2.png" I see two read ports and two
write ports. Please explain why they are called 

64:0 External MIDI 0
64:32 External MIDI 0

Why is my HDSP given the apparent name '64'? Why the :0 and :32? I would
have thought :0 and :16 would make more sense from a channel numbering
point of view, or :0 and :1 from an interface point of view. What's
going on?

2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport 2x2.
New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names 

72:0 External MIDI 1
72:1 External MIDI 1
72:2 External MIDI 1
72:3 External MIDI 1

Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?

I get the feeling that BOTH of the drivers for these devices are hosed.
What's up with these things?

   I do not understand why Alsa gives these devices numbers in the first
place, nor how the numbers are assigned.

   How can I change the names that are displayed so that 

"64:0 External MIDI 0" shows the name "HDSP 9652 Port 1"

"64:32 External MIDI 0" shows the name "HDSP 9652 Port 2"

"72:0 External MIDI 1" shows the name "MidiSport 2x2 Port A"

"72:1 External MIDI 1" shows the name "MidiSport 2x2 Port B"

Thanks very, very much in advance,
Mark




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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Sunday 16 February 2003 19:53, Mark Knecht wrote:
> 2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport 2x2.
> New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
> ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
> Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names
>
> 72:0 External MIDI 1
> 72:1 External MIDI 1
> 72:2 External MIDI 1
> 72:3 External MIDI 1
>
> Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?

Yes. This was a bug in snd-usb-audio for 0.9.0rc7, fixed now in ALSA CVS, see:
http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06225.html

Regards,
Pedro

-- 
ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
http://alsapas.alturl.com



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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Mark Knecht]

Pedro,
   I run on the PlanetCCRMA flow. My current Alsa appears to be from
1/21/03, or about a month ago. Was rc7 after that?

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 11:43, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> On Sunday 16 February 2003 19:53, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > 2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport 2x2.
> > New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
> > ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
> > Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names
> >
> > 72:0 External MIDI 1
> > 72:1 External MIDI 1
> > 72:2 External MIDI 1
> > 72:3 External MIDI 1
> >
> > Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?
> 
> Yes. This was a bug in snd-usb-audio for 0.9.0rc7, fixed now in ALSA CVS, see:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06225.html
> 
> Regards,
> Pedro
> 
> -- 
> ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
> http://alsapas.alturl.com
> 




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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Mark Knecht]

Sorry... I see the date on the email about the patch was a few days
later in February, so I definitely do not have the patch.

Thanks

On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 11:46, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Pedro,
>    I run on the PlanetCCRMA flow. My current Alsa appears to be from
> 1/21/03, or about a month ago. Was rc7 after that?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 11:43, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 February 2003 19:53, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > > 2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport 2x2.
> > > New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
> > > ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
> > > Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names
> > >
> > > 72:0 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:1 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:2 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:3 External MIDI 1
> > >
> > > Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?
> > 
> > Yes. This was a bug in snd-usb-audio for 0.9.0rc7, fixed now in ALSA CVS, see:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06225.html
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Pedro
> > 
> > -- 
> > ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
> > http://alsapas.alturl.com
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Sunday 16 February 2003 20:46, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Pedro,
>    I run on the PlanetCCRMA flow. My current Alsa appears to be from
> 1/21/03, or about a month ago. Was rc7 after that?
>

Yes, 0.9.0rc7 is dated 2003-01-28
PlanetCCRMA's ALSA drivers came from a CVS snapshot taken at 2003-01-21
The bug was introduced at 2003-01-10

So, you should use current CVS driver, or wait for a PlanetCCRMA update, or  
use Midiman's firmware. For other USB MIDI fully compliant devices, like 
Evolution's keyboards, a fixed driver is needed.

Regards,
Pedro

> On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 11:43, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 February 2003 19:53, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > > 2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport 2x2.
> > > New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
> > > ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
> > > Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names
> > >
> > > 72:0 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:1 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:2 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:3 External MIDI 1
> > >
> > > Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?
> >
> > Yes. This was a bug in snd-usb-audio for 0.9.0rc7, fixed now in ALSA CVS,
> > see:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06225.htm
> >l
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pedro

-- 
ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
http://alsapas.alturl.com



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RE: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Mark Knecht]

Pedro,
   Is there any online information about how to use Midiman's firmware?
Thanks,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: alsa-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:alsa-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Pedro
Lopez-Cabanillas
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 12:34 PM
To: Mark Knecht
Cc: Alsa-Devel; Rosegarden-Devel; Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano
Subject: Re: [Alsa-devel] Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering
PLEASE!


On Sunday 16 February 2003 20:46, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Pedro,
>    I run on the PlanetCCRMA flow. My current Alsa appears to be from
> 1/21/03, or about a month ago. Was rc7 after that?
>

Yes, 0.9.0rc7 is dated 2003-01-28
PlanetCCRMA's ALSA drivers came from a CVS snapshot taken at 2003-01-21
The bug was introduced at 2003-01-10

So, you should use current CVS driver, or wait for a PlanetCCRMA update, or
use Midiman's firmware. For other USB MIDI fully compliant devices, like
Evolution's keyboards, a fixed driver is needed.

Regards,
Pedro

> On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 11:43, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
> > On Sunday 16 February 2003 19:53, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > > 2) In the screen shot "with_2x2.png" I've plugged in the MidiSport
2x2.
> > > New devices show up in kaconnect. However, instead of showing 2 read
> > > ports and 2 write ports, I am getting 4 read ports and no write ports.
> > > Please explain why the MidiSport is given the names
> > >
> > > 72:0 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:1 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:2 External MIDI 1
> > > 72:3 External MIDI 1
> > >
> > > Shouldn't this be just :0 and :1 for both the read and write ports?
> >
> > Yes. This was a bug in snd-usb-audio for 0.9.0rc7, fixed now in ALSA
CVS,
> > see:
> >
http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06225.htm
> >l
> >
> > Regards,
> > Pedro

--
ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
http://alsapas.alturl.com



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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas]

On Monday 17 February 2003 00:03, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Pedro,
>    Is there any online information about how to use Midiman's firmware?
> Thanks,
> Mark

Yes. Clemens wrote an easy to use utility to extract and install Midiman's  
firmware, see:
http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~ladischc/midisport_linux_firmware.html

Regards,
Pedro

-- 
ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
http://alsapas.alturl.com



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RE: [Rosegarden-devel] Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Mark Knecht]

Pedro,
Thanks! I'll try that out this evening.

I wonder if anyone will respond on the weird HDSP numbering, and where I
make a configuration change to get Alsa to use real names? I hope so.

Cheers,
Mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rosegarden-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net
> [mailto:rosegarden-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Pedro
> Lopez-Cabanillas
> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 3:31 PM
> To: Mark Knecht
> Cc: Alsa-Devel; Rosegarden-Devel
> Subject: [Rosegarden-devel] Re: [Alsa-devel] Please explain Alsa
> Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!
>
>
> On Monday 17 February 2003 00:03, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > Pedro,
> >    Is there any online information about how to use Midiman's firmware?
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
>
> Yes. Clemens wrote an easy to use utility to extract and install
> Midiman's
> firmware, see:
> http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~ladischc/midisport_linux_firmware.html
>
> Regards,
> Pedro
>
> --
> ALSA Library Bindings for Pascal
> http://alsapas.alturl.com
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
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> _______________________________________________
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> Rosegarden-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-devel
>
>




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Re: Please explain Alsa Interface MIDI numbering PLEASE!

[Clemens Ladisch]

Mark Knecht wrote:
> 1) In the screen shot "without_2x2.png" I see two read ports and two
> write ports. Please explain why they are called
>
> 64:0 External MIDI 0
> 64:32 External MIDI 0
>
> Why is my HDSP given the apparent name '64'?

This isn't the name, it's the sequencer client number. In theory, it
should not be necessary to identify devices by this.

0-63 are reserved for the ALSA core. 64-127 are used by sound cards, with
each card getting 8 (64-71, 72-79, etc.). 128-255 are for use by
applications.

> Why the :0 and :32? I would have thought :0 and :16 would make more
> sense from a channel numbering point of view, or :0 and :1 from an
> interface point of view. What's going on?

These ports are not native sequencer ports implemented directly by the
driver but are emulated on top the rawmidi ports. There can be 256 ports
per sequencer client, and 8 rawmidi devices per card, so each rawmidi
device (which can have an unspecified number of subdevices=ports) is
mapped to a group of 32 (256/8) sequencer ports.

If the two rawmidi ports would have been subdevices of one device, they
would have been mapped to port numbers :0 and :1.

>    How can I change the names that are displayed so that
> "64:0 External MIDI 0" shows the name "HDSP 9652 Port 1"
> "64:32 External MIDI 0" shows the name "HDSP 9652 Port 2"
> "72:0 External MIDI 1" shows the name "MidiSport 2x2 Port A"
> "72:1 External MIDI 1" shows the name "MidiSport 2x2 Port B"

"External MIDI x" is the client name, which is the same for all ports of
the same client. It seems that kaconnect doesn't show the port name, which
would be what you want. Please complain to the author of kaconnect. :-)

To show the port names, run "aconnect -io" or "pmidi -l".


HTH
Clemens




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