Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

[restored alsa-user and alsa-devel to cc: as this is a driver bug]

On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 23:21 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> 02:08.0 Class 0401: 1102:0002 (rev 0a)
>         Subsystem: 1102:8065
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 27
>         I/O ports at b800 [size=32]
>         Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1 

Yup, just as I suspected, this card isn't in the driver's device table.

What's the exact name of your card?  IOW, what does it say on the box
(SBLive! Value, Player, 5.1 ... ?)

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 17:39 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> [restored alsa-user and alsa-devel to cc: as this is a driver bug]
> 
> On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 23:21 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > 02:08.0 Class 0401: 1102:0002 (rev 0a)
> >         Subsystem: 1102:8065
> >         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 27
> >         I/O ports at b800 [size=32]
> >         Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1 
> 
> Yup, just as I suspected, this card isn't in the driver's device table.
> 
> What's the exact name of your card?  IOW, what does it say on the box
> (SBLive! Value, Player, 5.1 ... ?)

Also, what's the model number (something like SB0350 or CT4870)?  You
might have to get this info from the Windows driver, I think it can be
extracted from the .inf files.

Lee



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Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 600 bytes --]

On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 17:39 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> What's the exact name of your card?  IOW, what does it say on the box
> (SBLive! Value, Player, 5.1 ... ?)

AFAIR I bought the card as a "SoundBlaster Live! 5.1" and that is also
printed on the card. Model number is SB0220. There are a EMU10K1-JFF and
a Sigmatel STC9708T on the card.

Tom

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Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 00:27 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> AFAIR I bought the card as a "SoundBlaster Live! 5.1" and that is also
> printed on the card. Model number is SB0220. There are a EMU10K1-JFF
> and a Sigmatel STC9708T on the card. 

Try this patch.

If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.

Lee

Index: alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/alsa/alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c,v
retrieving revision 1.66
diff -u -r1.66 emu10k1_main.c
--- alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c	26 Aug 2005 16:26:40 -0000	1.66
+++ alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c	27 Aug 2005 22:58:59 -0000
@@ -741,6 +741,13 @@
 	 .emu10k1_chip = 1,
 	 .ac97_chip = 1,
 	 .sblive51 = 1} ,
+	/* Tested by Thomas Zehetbauer 27th Aug 2005 */
+	{.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80651102,
+	 .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1 [SB0220]", 
+	 .id = "Live",
+	 .emu10k1_chip = 1,
+	 .ac97_chip = 1,
+	 .sblive51 = 1} ,
 	{.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80641102,
 	 .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1", 
 	 .id = "Live",




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Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1079 bytes --]

On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 19:00 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> Try this patch.

Please send patches attached, not inline, I had to manually apply. Used
alsa-driver-1.0.9b as basis.

> If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
> levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.

I still got the PCM control and distortions with the "ac97_chip=1" line.
Without it I lost many controls including "Master" and could not hear
any sound at all.

Tom

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Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 04:18 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-08-27 at 19:00 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > Try this patch.
> 
> Please send patches attached, not inline, I had to manually apply. Used
> alsa-driver-1.0.9b as basis.

Sorry, no.  Inline should work, that's the whole point of patches.

Did my mailer mangle the patch?

Lee



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Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 04:18 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
> > levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.
> 
> I still got the PCM control and distortions with the "ac97_chip=1" line.
> Without it I lost many controls including "Master" and could not hear
> any sound at all.

You are supposed to have only a PCM control - there should be no Wave
control.

Sorry, I don't know what's wrong.  It's definitely some kind of driver
bug.  Please file a bug report:

https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/main_page.php

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:28:51 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 04:18 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > > If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
> > > levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.
> > 
> > I still got the PCM control and distortions with the "ac97_chip=1" line.
> > Without it I lost many controls including "Master" and could not hear
> > any sound at all.
> 
> You are supposed to have only a PCM control - there should be no Wave
> control.

I guess ac97_chip is always necessary for sb live.  Otherwise the
front output won't be initialized correctly.


Takashi


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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 11:16 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:28:51 -0400,
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > 
> > On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 04:18 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > > > If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
> > > > levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.
> > > 
> > > I still got the PCM control and distortions with the "ac97_chip=1" line.
> > > Without it I lost many controls including "Master" and could not hear
> > > any sound at all.
> > 
> > You are supposed to have only a PCM control - there should be no Wave
> > control.
> 
> I guess ac97_chip is always necessary for sb live.  Otherwise the
> front output won't be initialized correctly.

But even if we set it to 1, the user gets a "PCM" control and a "Wave"
control.

As I understand the emu10k1 driver, after initializing the AC97, it's
supposed to rename the "Wave" control to "PCM".  Why is this user
getting both?

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:31:47 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 11:16 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:28:51 -0400,
> > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 04:18 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > > > > If you still get both a PCM and a Wave control, and distortion at high
> > > > > levels, try removing the "ac97_chip = 1" line.
> > > > 
> > > > I still got the PCM control and distortions with the "ac97_chip=1" line.
> > > > Without it I lost many controls including "Master" and could not hear
> > > > any sound at all.
> > > 
> > > You are supposed to have only a PCM control - there should be no Wave
> > > control.
> > 
> > I guess ac97_chip is always necessary for sb live.  Otherwise the
> > front output won't be initialized correctly.
> 
> But even if we set it to 1, the user gets a "PCM" control and a "Wave"
> control.

But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.

> As I understand the emu10k1 driver, after initializing the AC97, it's
> supposed to rename the "Wave" control to "PCM".  Why is this user
> getting both?

it's for audigy but not for sb live.


Takashi


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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.

Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
behavior?

Lee



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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:44:50 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.
> 
> Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
> and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
> behavior?

Yes.  As mentioned in the last mail, "Wave" -> "PCM" is done only on
audigy, not on sb live.


Takashi


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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:52 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:44:50 -0400,
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.
> > 
> > Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
> > and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
> > behavior?
> 
> Yes.  As mentioned in the last mail, "Wave" -> "PCM" is done only on
> audigy, not on sb live.

So then what is the ddifference between the Wave and PCM controls?
Don't they do the same thing?

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:53:47 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:52 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:44:50 -0400,
> > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.
> > > 
> > > Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
> > > and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
> > > behavior?
> > 
> > Yes.  As mentioned in the last mail, "Wave" -> "PCM" is done only on
> > audigy, not on sb live.
> 
> So then what is the ddifference between the Wave and PCM controls?
> Don't they do the same thing?

Wave = emu10k1 DSP digital volume
PCM = ac97 PCM analog volume

IIRC, Wave is renamed to PCM on audigy because audigy doesn't use ac97
PCM control.


Takashi


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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:59 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:53:47 -0400,
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:52 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:44:50 -0400,
> > > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > > But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.
> > > > 
> > > > Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
> > > > and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
> > > > behavior?
> > > 
> > > Yes.  As mentioned in the last mail, "Wave" -> "PCM" is done only on
> > > audigy, not on sb live.
> > 
> > So then what is the ddifference between the Wave and PCM controls?
> > Don't they do the same thing?
> 
> Wave = emu10k1 DSP digital volume
> PCM = ac97 PCM analog volume
> 
> IIRC, Wave is renamed to PCM on audigy because audigy doesn't use ac97
> PCM control.

OK, thanks for clarifying.  So maybe the distortion problem here is just
an app that's sending a clipped signal.

Please apply my patch from earlier in the thread, here it is again for
convenience.

Summary: Add identification for Live 5.1 [SB0220]

Signed-Off-By: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>

Index: alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/alsa/alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c,v
retrieving revision 1.66
diff -u -r1.66 emu10k1_main.c
--- alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c      26 Aug 2005 16:26:40
-0000      1.66
+++ alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c      27 Aug 2005 22:58:59
-0000
@@ -741,6 +741,13 @@
         .emu10k1_chip = 1,
         .ac97_chip = 1,
         .sblive51 = 1} ,
+       /* Tested by Thomas Zehetbauer 27th Aug 2005 */
+       {.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80651102,
+        .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1 [SB0220]", 
+        .id = "Live",
+        .emu10k1_chip = 1,
+        .ac97_chip = 1,
+        .sblive51 = 1} ,
        {.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80641102,
         .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1", 
         .id = "Live",



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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 12:26 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:59 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

Sorry, the patch was word wrapped.

Index: alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/alsa/alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c,v
retrieving revision 1.66
diff -u -r1.66 emu10k1_main.c
--- alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c	26 Aug 2005 16:26:40 -0000	1.66
+++ alsa-kernel/pci/emu10k1/emu10k1_main.c	29 Aug 2005 16:31:37 -0000
@@ -741,6 +741,13 @@
 	 .emu10k1_chip = 1,
 	 .ac97_chip = 1,
 	 .sblive51 = 1} ,
+	/* Tested by Thomas Zehetbauer 27th Aug 2005 */
+	{.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80651102,
+	 .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1 [SB0220]", 
+	 .id = "Live",
+	 .emu10k1_chip = 1,
+	 .ac97_chip = 1,
+	 .sblive51 = 1} ,
 	{.vendor = 0x1102, .device = 0x0002, .subsystem = 0x80641102,
 	 .driver = "EMU10K1", .name = "SB Live 5.1", 
 	 .id = "Live",




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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:26:07 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:59 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:53:47 -0400,
> > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:52 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:44:50 -0400,
> > > > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 17:38 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > > > But ac97 chip is never initialized if ac97_chip == 0.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Right, but the user tried my patch to set ac97_chip to 1 for that model,
> > > > > and is still getting a "Wave" and a "PCM" control.  Is this the expected
> > > > > behavior?
> > > > 
> > > > Yes.  As mentioned in the last mail, "Wave" -> "PCM" is done only on
> > > > audigy, not on sb live.
> > > 
> > > So then what is the ddifference between the Wave and PCM controls?
> > > Don't they do the same thing?
> > 
> > Wave = emu10k1 DSP digital volume
> > PCM = ac97 PCM analog volume
> > 
> > IIRC, Wave is renamed to PCM on audigy because audigy doesn't use ac97
> > PCM control.
> 
> OK, thanks for clarifying.  So maybe the distortion problem here is just
> an app that's sending a clipped signal.
> 
> Please apply my patch from earlier in the thread, here it is again for
> convenience.
> 
> Summary: Add identification for Live 5.1 [SB0220]
> 
> Signed-Off-By: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>

Done.  Thanks.
(BTW, the patch was broken due to tab/space replacement...)


Takashi


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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Clemens Ladisch]

Lee Revell wrote:
> So maybe the distortion problem here is just an app that's sending
> a clipped signal.

It's a known problem with several cards that use the STAC9708 codec.
It seems the chip doesn't get initialized/configured correctly;
several registers aren't documented.


Regards,
Clemens



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:53 +0200, Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > So maybe the distortion problem here is just an app that's sending
> > a clipped signal.
> 
> It's a known problem with several cards that use the STAC9708 codec.
> It seems the chip doesn't get initialized/configured correctly;
> several registers aren't documented.
> 

Should be trivial to RE using the kX driver (the kxctrl utility lets you
read and write AC97 registers).

Thomas, are you willing to install Windows to track this bug down?  :-P

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Clemens Ladisch]

Lee Revell wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:53 +0200, Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > So maybe the distortion problem here is just an app that's sending
> > > a clipped signal.
> >
> > It's a known problem with several cards that use the STAC9708 codec.
> > It seems the chip doesn't get initialized/configured correctly;
> > several registers aren't documented.
>
> Should be trivial to RE using the kX driver (the kxctrl utility lets you
> read and write AC97 registers).

I already read the AC97 registers of my ymfpci card in Windows, but
didn't find anything useful.


Regards,
Clemens



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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 09:54 +0200, Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> Lee Revell wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:53 +0200, Clemens Ladisch wrote:
> > > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > > So maybe the distortion problem here is just an app that's sending
> > > > a clipped signal.
> > >
> > > It's a known problem with several cards that use the STAC9708 codec.
> > > It seems the chip doesn't get initialized/configured correctly;
> > > several registers aren't documented.
> >
> > Should be trivial to RE using the kX driver (the kxctrl utility lets you
> > read and write AC97 registers).
> 
> I already read the AC97 registers of my ymfpci card in Windows, but
> didn't find anything useful.

OK, then I guess someone just needs to fire up SoftICE and set some IO
breakpoints to log all read/write to the AC97 codec.

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

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On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 10:31 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> As I understand the emu10k1 driver, after initializing the AC97, it's
> supposed to rename the "Wave" control to "PCM".  Why is this user
> getting both?

No, they are definitely different controls. From what I have seen "Wave"
appears to be handled by the EMU10K1 and attenuates the PCM data stream
for both digital (SPDIF) and analog output. "PCM" appears to control the
DAC of the Sigmatel STAC9708T AC97 codec.

Tom

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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 21:04 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 10:31 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > As I understand the emu10k1 driver, after initializing the AC97, it's
> > supposed to rename the "Wave" control to "PCM".  Why is this user
> > getting both?
> 
> No, they are definitely different controls. From what I have seen "Wave"
> appears to be handled by the EMU10K1 and attenuates the PCM data stream
> for both digital (SPDIF) and analog output. "PCM" appears to control the
> DAC of the Sigmatel STAC9708T AC97 codec.

OK, thanks.  As Takashi-san pointed out I was confused by the difference
between the Audigy and Live! mixers.

I still think these are poor choices for mixer control names.  The kX
driver solves this problem nicely by separating the AC97 mixer controls
from the ones implemented with EMU10K1 DSP microcode.  I guess to have
this option on Linux, we'd need some way for driver to report which
controls are part of the AC97 codec.

Lee

Lee



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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

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On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 15:55 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> I still think these are poor choices for mixer control names.  The kX
> driver solves this problem nicely by separating the AC97 mixer controls
> from the ones implemented with EMU10K1 DSP microcode.  I guess to have
> this option on Linux, we'd need some way for driver to report which
> controls are part of the AC97 codec.

It's not the name, it's the almost total lack of documentation that
makes mixer controls so confusing. I am going to make up a page from
what I have learned, but I feel that I am still scratching on the
surface. For example I still wonder what these controls do:
- 3D Control - Switch
- 3D Control Sigmatel - Depth
- 3D Control Sigmatel - Rear Depth
- Sigmatel 4-Speaker Stereo Playback Switch

Tom

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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 01:05 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 15:55 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > I still think these are poor choices for mixer control names.  The kX
> > driver solves this problem nicely by separating the AC97 mixer controls
> > from the ones implemented with EMU10K1 DSP microcode.  I guess to have
> > this option on Linux, we'd need some way for driver to report which
> > controls are part of the AC97 codec.
> 
> It's not the name, it's the almost total lack of documentation that
> makes mixer controls so confusing. I am going to make up a page from
> what I have learned, but I feel that I am still scratching on the
> surface. For example I still wonder what these controls do:
> - 3D Control - Switch
> - 3D Control Sigmatel - Depth
> - 3D Control Sigmatel - Rear Depth
> - Sigmatel 4-Speaker Stereo Playback Switch

I think those are generic AC97 features.  FWIW they are just as cryptic
on Windows ("3D Enhancement" or something).

I guess you already looked at Documentation/SB-Live-mixer.txt?

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:08:55 -0400,
Lee Revell wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 01:05 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 15:55 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > > I still think these are poor choices for mixer control names.  The kX
> > > driver solves this problem nicely by separating the AC97 mixer controls
> > > from the ones implemented with EMU10K1 DSP microcode.  I guess to have
> > > this option on Linux, we'd need some way for driver to report which
> > > controls are part of the AC97 codec.
> > 
> > It's not the name, it's the almost total lack of documentation that
> > makes mixer controls so confusing. I am going to make up a page from
> > what I have learned, but I feel that I am still scratching on the
> > surface. For example I still wonder what these controls do:
> > - 3D Control - Switch
> > - 3D Control Sigmatel - Depth
> > - 3D Control Sigmatel - Rear Depth
> > - Sigmatel 4-Speaker Stereo Playback Switch
> 
> I think those are generic AC97 features.

Yes.

>  FWIW they are just as cryptic
> on Windows ("3D Enhancement" or something).

I guess they do nothing on sb live.

Could you check whether they influence on sounds?  If not, we can
remove them.


Takashi


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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Takashi Iwai]

At Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:39:41 -0500,
Gain Paolo Mureddu wrote:
> 
> Takashi Iwai wrote:
> 
> >>I think those are generic AC97 features.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >  
> >
> >> FWIW they are just as cryptic
> >>on Windows ("3D Enhancement" or something).
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I guess they do nothing on sb live.
> >
> >Could you check whether they influence on sounds?  If not, we can
> >remove them.
> >
> >
> >Takashi
> >  
> >
> I only have a couple AC97 3DControl bars in alsamixer. One that toggles 
> and one that actually modifies the sound (it does get modified, though 
> it "sounds" like it only does it to the front speakers). Increments and 
> decrements in this control occur by 33% increments/decrements, if this 
> is of any use.

OK, then these controls indeed have influences.  We can keep them,
then,
(They are ac97 controls, so they really changes only the front
 output.)


Takashi


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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

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On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 11:08 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> Could you check whether they influence on sounds?  If not, we can
> remove them.

"3D Control (Switch|Front|Rear)" and "Sigmatel Surround" definitely do
influence sound appearance.

Tom

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Re: Re: [Alsa-user] ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

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On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 19:08 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> I guess you already looked at Documentation/SB-Live-mixer.txt?

Sure I have, but I don't think this documentation is correct:

"Wave (Surround|Center|LFE) Playback Volume" apparently do some kind of
stereo upmixing. I guess that is why I have seen these controls going to
zero when using 6 channel output.

Tom

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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 02:04 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 19:08 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > I guess you already looked at Documentation/SB-Live-mixer.txt?
> 
> Sure I have, but I don't think this documentation is correct:
> 
> "Wave (Surround|Center|LFE) Playback Volume" apparently do some kind of
> stereo upmixing. I guess that is why I have seen these controls going to
> zero when using 6 channel output.

Right.  If you play a stereo PCM these control the level that goes to
the other 4 channels.  So when using 6 channel output they go to zero.

Rather than posting your own docs on the web, how about submitting a
patch to correct the documentation?

Lee



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Re: [Alsa-devel] Re: ALSA / emu10k1 / SPDIF / surround?

[Lee Revell]

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 02:04 +0200, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-08-29 at 19:08 -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> > I guess you already looked at Documentation/SB-Live-mixer.txt?
> 
> Sure I have, but I don't think this documentation is correct:
> 
> "Wave (Surround|Center|LFE) Playback Volume" apparently do some kind of
> stereo upmixing. I guess that is why I have seen these controls going to
> zero when using 6 channel output.

Actually the docs are correct:

name='Wave Playback Volume',index=0

This control is used to attenuate samples for left and right PCM FX-bus
accumulators. ALSA uses accumulators 0 and 1 for left and right PCM samples.
The result samples are forwarded to the front DAC PCM slots of the AC97 codec.

name='Wave Surround Playback Volume',index=0

This control is used to attenuate samples for left and right PCM FX-bus
accumulators. ALSA uses accumulators 0 and 1 for left and right PCM samples.
The result samples are forwarded to the rear I2S DACs. These DACs operates
separately (they are not inside the AC97 codec). 

name='Wave Center Playback Volume',index=0

This control is used to attenuate samples for left and right PCM FX-bus
accumulators. ALSA uses accumulators 0 and 1 for left and right PCM samples.
The result is mixed to mono signal (single channel) and forwarded to
the ??rear?? right DAC PCM slot of the AC97 codec.

name='Wave LFE Playback Volume',index=0

This control is used to attenuate samples for left and right PCM FX-bus
accumulators. ALSA uses accumulators 0 and 1 for left and right PCM.
The result is mixed to mono signal (single channel) and forwarded to
the ??rear?? left DAC PCM slot of the AC97 codec.

Lee



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