Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

I reciently purchased an Audiophile USB and it arrived last night.

My needs are not multi-channel and so I thought it would be nice to
have a high quality sound device I could use with both my laptop and
my desktop.  I googled for compatibility and found that usb-audio
stuff should work Ok with alsa

Of course I didn't google deep enough to find out that the Audiophile
USB is a non-standard device.  I've managed to make the device play
using alsaplayer and the Big Endian formats.  I see that if I set up
the plughw then I can probally get it to work with other programs.

What I haven't made work is recording.  Using arecord and hw:0,0 just
gives silence and hw:0,1 white noise.
I've dug up a post that said that recording on this device is
problematic and it could be a while before it worked but it was dated
earlier this year.

Has there been any movement on this device?  I can run under Windows
and capture USB logs if needed.

--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 14:16 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> What I haven't made work is recording.  Using arecord and hw:0,0 just
> gives silence and hw:0,1 white noise.

What about arecord with plughw:0,0 and plughw:0,1?

Lee



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Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

Oops.  I sent this direct rather than to the list.

On 10/26/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 14:16 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> > What I haven't made work is recording.  Using arecord and hw:0,0 just
> > gives silence and hw:0,1 white noise.
>
> What about arecord with plughw:0,0 and plughw:0,1?

Hmm not sure.  I was actually testing with -t raw and  -f S24_3BE so
thats why I was using hw.

I'll try the plughw tonight.  What format should I use?  It seemed to
be very picky about the format or I just got an error.

--
Richard A. Smith


--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Clemens Ladisch]

Richard Smith wrote:
> On 10/26/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 14:16 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> > > What I haven't made work is recording.  Using arecord and hw:0,0 just
> > > gives silence and hw:0,1 white noise.
> >
> > What about arecord with plughw:0,0 and plughw:0,1?
>
> Hmm not sure.  I was actually testing with -t raw and  -f S24_3BE so
> thats why I was using hw.
>
> I'll try the plughw tonight.  What format should I use?

/proc/asound/cardX/stream0 lists all supported sample formats.
Please try every one.


Regards,
Clemens



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

I looked through the recient Alsa change logs and found some entries
that looked liked

usb-audio:
- Support full speed devices.

Since the Audiophile USB will run at 24/96k and thats where I'm trying
to use it at I figure thats probally a good thing to have supported.

I pulled down 2.6.14-rc5 which has alsa 1.0.10rc1 in it and I've had a
little bit of success.

Out of a clean system boot I can run an 'arecord | aplay' and get
audio.  However once I start to try and use formats that are >
48000kHz and > S16 then I run into trouble and get the  white noise.

Once this happens I have to reboot to recover and sometimes I have to
power cycle to recover.

Often its not enough to just to power cycle and replug the Audiophile
which sometimes causes kernel oopses.

Sometimes I have to power cycle the host to get back to working audio.
 So it seems there may also be issues with my host controller.  Its
Via but  I've fogotten the exact chipset.   I'll post a lspci tonight
if needed.

Its the only device on the USB chain.  I suppose I could use a usb
mouse or something else to check and see if the host is totally broken
or just broken for the Audiophile.

What kind of debugging can I enable to help track this down?

--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 12:56 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> Often its not enough to just to power cycle and replug the Audiophile
> which sometimes causes kernel oopses. 

Please post these oopses.  ANY oops is a bug in the kernel, no matter
what you did to cause it.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 14:17 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> > > Often its not enough to just to power cycle and replug the Audiophile
> > > which sometimes causes kernel oopses.
> >
> > Please post these oopses.  ANY oops is a bug in the kernel, no matter
> > what you did to cause it.
> 
> I'll create some and post them tonight.

Also, arecord | aplay is not too good for debugging because you can't
tell where in the pipe the noise is introduced.  You need to compare the
output of arecord with some "known good" .wav files.

You are using plughw and not hw for both record and playback right?
Otherwise arecord | aplay can't possibly work, because arecord will not
output in S24_3BE format.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

>
> Also, arecord | aplay is not too good for debugging because you can't
> tell where in the pipe the noise is introduced.  You need to compare the
> output of arecord with some "known good" .wav files.

It's pretty obvious when it happens.  The noise is all there is.  Its
not noise on top of the audio, its _completely noise_.   Sounds just
like you hooked it up to a white or pink noise generator.  Loud too.

> You are using plughw and not hw for both record and playback right?

I was using many differnt permutations.

> Otherwise arecord | aplay can't possibly work, because arecord will not
> output in S24_3BE format.

Well thats good to know and may explain a few things.  It dosen't
complain.  What about -t raw?

Hmm. so how can I test the 24/96kHz mode then?

--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 16:01 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> It's pretty obvious when it happens.  The noise is all there is.  Its
> not noise on top of the audio, its _completely noise_.   Sounds just
> like you hooked it up to a white or pink noise generator.  Loud too. 

So the noise continues even if aplay is not running?

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Clemens Ladisch]

Richard Smith wrote:
> I looked through the recient Alsa change logs and found some entries
> that looked liked
>
> usb-audio:
> - Support full speed devices.

The driver has always supported full speed devices; the somewhat
recent changes are for high speed devices (which the Audiophile
isn't).

> I pulled down 2.6.14-rc5 which has alsa 1.0.10rc1 in it and I've had a
> little bit of success.
>
> Out of a clean system boot I can run an 'arecord | aplay' and get
> audio.  However once I start to try and use formats that are >
> 48000kHz and > S16 then I run into trouble and get the  white noise.

What are the contents of /proc/asound/card0/stream0?


Regards,
Clemens



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

> The driver has always supported full speed devices; the somewhat
> recent changes are for high speed devices (which the Audiophile
> isn't).

Ah.  Ok.

Well.  I'm not sure what fairy visited me but I'm haveing much better luck now.

arecord does S24_3BE fine if you use -t raw. Its writeing to a .wav
that won't support that format.

I can now do the arecord | aplay for many different formats using both
plughw and hw and it all works.

arecord | aplay @ S24_3BE/96k still gives lots of static but now I can
acutally hear the source.  However if I do an arecord to a (raw) file
and then aplay back that file it works.

Next I tried to get jackd up but jackd dosen't like S24_3BE and if I
use plughw I get XRUNS.

> What are the contents of /proc/asound/card0/stream0?

I'm away till Sunday.  So I'll post it then.  I'm not having a lot of
luck with the oops ether.  ksymoops wants to look for  /proc/ksyms but
I don't seem to have one.  I have a /proc/kallsyms that looks like
something useful but ksymoops complains its not a useable format.

--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 13:34 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> arecord | aplay @ S24_3BE/96k still gives lots of static but now I can
> acutally hear the source.  However if I do an arecord to a (raw) file
> and then aplay back that file it works. 

Because arecord | aplay does not account for the inherent realtime
constraint.  I suspect "nice -n -20 arecord | nice -n -20 aplay" would
work.

Keep in mind that 24/96 full duplex over USB 1.1 is really pushing the
USB bandwidth limits.  Most people I talk to report that this doesn't
work reliably on any OS.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 13:34 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> Next I tried to get jackd up but jackd dosen't like S24_3BE and if I
> use plughw I get XRUNS. 

Known issue.  JACK doesn't like plughw but does not support big endian
formats.  See jackit-devel archives for a patch.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 13:34 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> I'm away till Sunday.  So I'll post it then.  I'm not having a lot of
> luck with the oops ether.  ksymoops wants to look for  /proc/ksyms but
> I don't seem to have one.  I have a /proc/kallsyms that looks like
> something useful but ksymoops complains its not a useable format.
> 

Don't use ksymoops for 2.6.  Just post the oops verbatim.

The kernel docs were wrong for a long time but they were recently fixed.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

> Because arecord | aplay does not account for the inherent realtime
> constraint.  I suspect "nice -n -20 arecord | nice -n -20 aplay" would
> work.

I'll try and see.

> Keep in mind that 24/96 full duplex over USB 1.1 is really pushing the
> USB bandwidth limits.  Most people I talk to report that this doesn't
> work reliably on any OS.

Why would it only doing USB 1.1?  I thought this was USB 2.0 device.

--
Richard A. Smith


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Lee Revell]

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 14:01 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> > Because arecord | aplay does not account for the inherent realtime
> > constraint.  I suspect "nice -n -20 arecord | nice -n -20 aplay" would
> > work.
> 
> I'll try and see.
> 
> > Keep in mind that 24/96 full duplex over USB 1.1 is really pushing the
> > USB bandwidth limits.  Most people I talk to report that this doesn't
> > work reliably on any OS.
> 
> Why would it only doing USB 1.1?  I thought this was USB 2.0 device.

Argh, sorry.  I can never remember whether "full speed" or "high speed"
is the faster one.  That's what happens when you let the idiots from
marketing name the protocol.

Lee



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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Martin Habets]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 02:51:03PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 13:34 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
> > Next I tried to get jackd up but jackd dosen't like S24_3BE and if I
> > use plughw I get XRUNS. 
> 
> Known issue.  JACK doesn't like plughw but does not support big endian
> formats.  See jackit-devel archives for a patch.

Almost right :). Jack expects the same endianness of the CPU and sound
card. Patches:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1289682&group_id=39687&atid=425939

-- 
Martin


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 705 bytes --]

> Don't use ksymoops for 2.6.  Just post the oops verbatim.
>
> The kernel docs were wrong for a long time but they were recently fixed.

The oops I got is attached.

Oh and I solved my static problems!

You may find this humorous.

I was overdriving the input.  The source I was using turned out to be
a headphone output rather than a line level output.  So if I had the
volume turned up hardly any at all it would bang the input from rail
to rail thus creating what I thought  was noise.

That explains why I wasn't able to repeat any of my findings since it
really had nothing to do with any of the variables I was changing.

Thanks for all your help though.

--
Richard A. Smith

[-- Attachment #2: oops --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 3924 bytes --]


Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: usb 1-2: USB disconnect, address 3

Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: c01915c3
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: PREEMPT SMP 
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: Modules linked in: radeon drm rfcomm l2cap bluetooth sd_mod ipx p8022 psnap llc parport_pc lp parport ipv6 snd_via82xx snd_ac97_codec snd_ac97_bus snd_mpu401_uart i2c_viapro i2c_core via_agp ehci_hcd snd_usb_audio snd_pcm_oss snd_mixer_oss snd_pcm snd_timer snd_page_alloc snd_usb_lib snd_rawmidi snd_hwdep snd soundcore uhci_hcd sg sr_mod dm_mod autofs4 af_packet agpgart via_rhine mii thermal processor fan button battery ac rtc usb_storage usbcore ide_cd cdrom ide_scsi scsi_mod
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: CPU:    0
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: EIP:    0060:[<c01915c3>]    Not tainted VLI
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010246   (2.6.14-rc5) 
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: EIP is at sysfs_hash_and_remove+0x1f/0x102
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: eax: df4912c8   ebx: dea09f08   ecx: dea28dc0   edx: dc0a27fc
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: esi: 00000000   edi: df206fe0   ebp: dedb7b80   esp: df1cbdb0
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: ds: 007b   es: 007b   ss: 0068
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: Process khubd (pid: 996, threadinfo=df1ca000 task=decc6550)
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: Stack: dffe0980 de9048bc de904878 dea09f08 dea09f00 df206fe0 dedb7b80 c02200bb 
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:        df4912c8 df206fe0 dedb7bfc dea09f00 df9baa60 e08f50e2 00000000 c0220121 
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:        dea09f00 df9baa40 e08ef550 dea09f00 07400000 00000000 df206360 df635d40 
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: Call Trace:
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c02200bb>] class_device_del+0xa5/0xfb
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c0220121>] class_device_unregister+0x10/0x1d
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08ef550>] snd_unregister_device+0x83/0xcf [snd]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08f3c54>] snd_ctl_dev_unregister+0x23/0x39 [snd]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08f4173>] snd_device_free+0x9c/0xae [snd]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08f435b>] snd_device_free_all+0x58/0x61 [snd]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08efd74>] snd_card_free+0xff/0x1f9 [snd]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e095fc4d>] snd_usb_audio_disconnect+0xb1/0xe7 [snd_usb_audio]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e095fce2>] usb_audio_disconnect+0x22/0x26 [snd_usb_audio]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e087e0f5>] usb_unbind_interface+0x41/0x7d [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c021f109>] __device_release_driver+0x61/0x81
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c021f146>] device_release_driver+0x1d/0x2f
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c021e957>] bus_remove_device+0x6a/0x82
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c021dad8>] device_del+0x34/0x72
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e088596a>] usb_disable_device+0xcb/0x142 [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e0880656>] usb_disconnect+0xaa/0x145 [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e08815ec>] hub_port_connect_change+0x57/0x3f2 [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e087f147>] clear_port_feature+0x57/0x5b [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e0881c3a>] hub_events+0x2b3/0x41d [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e0881da4>] hub_thread+0x0/0xe2 [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<e0881db8>] hub_thread+0x14/0xe2 [usbcore]
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c0130973>] autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x4b
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c013055d>] kthread+0xaf/0xb3
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c01304ae>] kthread+0x0/0xb3
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel:  [<c0101171>] kernel_thread_helper+0x5/0xb
Oct 27 10:16:18 engine36 kernel: Code: e9 7b bc fe ff 83 c4 04 5b 5e 5f c3 55 57 56 53 83 ec 0c 8b 44 24 20 8b 70 58 8b 50 10 85 d2 74 75 f0 ff 4a 78 0f 88 e3 00 00 00 <8b> 46 0c 8d 68 fc 8b 4d 04 0f 18 01 90 89 c3 83 c6 0c 89 74 24 

Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Pierre-Antoine Champin]

Richard Smith wrote :
> Why would it only doing USB 1.1?  I thought this was USB 2.0 device.

Are you sure ?
I bought an Audiophile USB a few months ago, I seem to remember it is
USB 1.1 only...
(or did M-Audio release a new one?)

Lee Revell a écrit :
> Keep in mind that 24/96 full duplex over USB 1.1 is really pushing the
> USB bandwidth limits.  Most people I talk to report that this doesn't
> work reliably on any OS.

I confirm: according to
  http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/AudiophileUSB-focus.html

USB recording:
 	• 16-bit/44.1kHz > 4-in/4-out
 	• 24-bit/44.1kHz > 4-in/2-out or 2-in/4-out
 	• 24-bit/48kHz > 4-in/2-out or 2-in/4-out
 	• 24-bit/96kHz > 2-in or 2-out
 	                      ^^

I also has trouble with the Audiophile, but hadn't have much time to
test it for quite a long time now. As soon as I find time to compile
kernel 2.6.14, I'll give it a try with all this new information.

  pA


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Re: Re: Status of M-Audio Audiophile USB

[Richard Smith]

On 11/2/05, Pierre-Antoine Champin <alsa-050822@champin.net> wrote:
> I confirm: according to
>   http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/AudiophileUSB-focus.html
>
>         • 24-bit/96kHz > 2-in or 2-out

I think you guys are right.  I can't find anywhere in any of the
documentation mention of usb 2.0.  It does mention in one of the spec
listings 24/96kHz, full duplex recording but I think thats not
correct.

I just looked at /proc/bus/usb/devices and I see the Spd=12 for the
Audiophile USB so yep its a usb 1 device.  Crap.

That probally means that even when the big endian jack patches get
worked out, (They currently don't apply cleanly) it still won't really
run very will since it can't do full duplex at that rate.

I think jack can be set to record only though so its not a total loss.

Back to the drawing board.
--
Richard A. Smith