Re: [uml-devel] [uml-user] 2.6.17.10

Re: [uml-devel] [uml-user] 2.6.17.10

[Blaisorblade]

On Saturday 26 August 2006 14:11, Mathew Brown wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:07:59 +0200, "Blaisorblade"
>
> <blaisorblade@yahoo.it> said:
> > On Saturday 26 August 2006 12:41, Mathew Brown wrote:
> > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:47:38 +0200, "Dalibor Dukic"
> > >
> > > I mentioned this in my previous thread and Jeff redirected me to:
> > > http://uml.harlowhill.com/  Unfortunately, it's read only.
> >
> > Since when? It's never been so - likely you just need a free account to
> > edit
> > it. My info may be out of date but this is real (and strange) news.
> > --
>
> I'm not sure since when but it states so clearly on the main page:  "We
> seem to have a problem with wiki-spam from various sources. I am going
> to make the wiki read only while I resolve the problem & probably create
> a username/password system to help protect us from this evil scourge!"
>
> I didn't find any mention of where you can apply for a
> username/password..
Ok, I didn't visit it so recently - sorry for not going to see myself (I'm a 
bit busy).

Jeff (and the wiki administrator - I don't know who is, please CC him), given 
that we need a wiki and that sourceforge offers free PHP + MySQL hosting (if 
things didn't change - this was true 2 years ago), do we need to host the 
wiki or offer help to the admin or to help it in whichever way?
-- 
Inform me of my mistakes, so I can keep imitating Homer Simpson's "Doh!".
Paolo Giarrusso, aka Blaisorblade
http://www.user-mode-linux.org/~blaisorblade
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! 
 http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com 


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Re: [uml-devel] [uml-user] 2.6.17.10

[Dalibor Dukic]

On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:19 +0200, Blaisorblade wrote:
> On Saturday 26 August 2006 14:11, Mathew Brown wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:07:59 +0200, "Blaisorblade"
> >
> > <blaisorblade@yahoo.it> said:
> > > On Saturday 26 August 2006 12:41, Mathew Brown wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:47:38 +0200, "Dalibor Dukic"
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned this in my previous thread and Jeff redirected me to:
> > > > http://uml.harlowhill.com/  Unfortunately, it's read only.
> > >
> > > Since when? It's never been so - likely you just need a free account to
> > > edit
> > > it. My info may be out of date but this is real (and strange) news.
> > > --
> >
> > I'm not sure since when but it states so clearly on the main page:  "We
> > seem to have a problem with wiki-spam from various sources. I am going
> > to make the wiki read only while I resolve the problem & probably create
> > a username/password system to help protect us from this evil scourge!"
> >
> > I didn't find any mention of where you can apply for a
> > username/password..
> Ok, I didn't visit it so recently - sorry for not going to see myself (I'm a 
> bit busy).
> 
> Jeff (and the wiki administrator - I don't know who is, please CC him), given 
> that we need a wiki and that sourceforge offers free PHP + MySQL hosting (if 
> things didn't change - this was true 2 years ago), do we need to host the 
> wiki or offer help to the admin or to help it in whichever way?

I can arrange hosting for free on my private server. It's not a problem.


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[uml-devel] Wiki situation (was: Re: [uml-user] 2.6.17.10)

[Blaisorblade]

On Saturday 26 August 2006 15:53, Dalibor Dukic wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:19 +0200, Blaisorblade wrote:
> > On Saturday 26 August 2006 14:11, Mathew Brown wrote:
> > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:07:59 +0200, "Blaisorblade"
> > >
> > > <blaisorblade@yahoo.it> said:
> > > > On Saturday 26 August 2006 12:41, Mathew Brown wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:47:38 +0200, "Dalibor Dukic"
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned this in my previous thread and Jeff redirected me to:
> > > > > http://uml.harlowhill.com/  Unfortunately, it's read only.
> > > >
> > > > Since when? It's never been so - likely you just need a free account
> > > > to edit
> > > > it. My info may be out of date but this is real (and strange) news.
> > > > --
> > >
> > > I'm not sure since when but it states so clearly on the main page:  "We
> > > seem to have a problem with wiki-spam from various sources. I am going
> > > to make the wiki read only while I resolve the problem & probably
> > > create a username/password system to help protect us from this evil
> > > scourge!"
> > >
> > > I didn't find any mention of where you can apply for a
> > > username/password..
> >
> > Ok, I didn't visit it so recently - sorry for not going to see myself
> > (I'm a bit busy).
> >
> > Jeff (and the wiki administrator - I don't know who is, please CC him),
> > given that we need a wiki and that sourceforge offers free PHP + MySQL
> > hosting (if things didn't change - this was true 2 years ago), do we need
> > to host the wiki or offer help to the admin or to help it in whichever
> > way?

> I can arrange hosting for free on my private server. It's not a problem.

That is not the problem. Thanks for your offer anyway.

The current problem with the wiki is that it must be setup against wiki-spam, 
and there are ways to do that:
* require a Username/password for changes, and ask to type chars in a 
distorted image during registration to stop bots.
* use a blacklist against spam: see 
http://linux-net.osdl.org/index.php/Main_Page (I discovered that because I 
was blacklisted once due to my bad provider).

However, since the wiki is privately hosted what happens if, for instance, the 
admin decides to close it because he doesn't support any more UML?

Or can we make sure backups are done (this is an example, nor Jeff nor I have 
much time for syst. administration, but configuring a cron job onto our 
machines is easy, and Sourceforge probably would help in this but it's to 
see)? What if the HD's on his box crash (not every server is on RAID)?

And so on. And on the other side, since we need a wiki we should also probably 
provide and support it. The current administrator is very kind but he filled 
a need we should have filled already.

Many other projects have a wiki as their _main_ website (even because 
collaborative work on a standard website is more difficult - keeping the 
sources in CVS is possible but in practice it didn't work for us). But this 
means that the website admin must be able to act on the wiki.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to refuse help from the community or 
consider it less, nor to criticize anybody, but the wiki _is_ important, and 
it should have a more central role.

These are just ideas, doubts and proposals to discuss together, and now I want 
to hear your ideas.

Thanks to everybody
-- 
Inform me of my mistakes, so I can keep imitating Homer Simpson's "Doh!".
Paolo Giarrusso, aka Blaisorblade
http://www.user-mode-linux.org/~blaisorblade
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! 
 http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com 


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Re: [uml-devel] Wiki situation (was: Re: [uml-user] 2.6.17.10)

[Brock, Anthony - NET]

> -----Original Message-----
> However, since the wiki is privately hosted what happens if, 
> for instance, the 
> admin decides to close it because he doesn't support any more UML?

The same could be said for either Jeff or yourself.

It wouldn't hurt to have additional mirrors/backups of the data.
However, I view the Wiki administrator as one of the core members of
UML. He has been supporting this project for at least 2 years. In fact,
he has been providing assistance for this project at least as long as
you have.

Rather than question anyone's commitment to the project with potential
"what ifs", we should focus on resolving actual issues.

Initially, we should identify a means for stopping the spam. Once this
is resolved, someone could focus on resolving the global issues faced by
the UML websites. To my knowledge, there are four main sites associated
with "core" information:

http://uml.harlowhill.com/
http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/
http://usermodelinux.org/
http://www.user-mode-linux.org/%7Eblaisorblade/

A better approach would be to unify these under a single domain as a
common repository for information. However, this takes volunteer time
and effort. Perhaps you should consider soliciting the community for a
"web master"? This would allow the work to proceed while leaving you and
Jeff free to pursue the actual technology? This is at least worth a try.

> Many other projects have a wiki as their _main_ website (even because 
> collaborative work on a standard website is more difficult - 
> keeping the 
> sources in CVS is possible but in practice it didn't work for 
> us). But this 
> means that the website admin must be able to act on the wiki.
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to refuse help from the 
> community or 
> consider it less, nor to criticize anybody, but the wiki _is_ 
> important, and 
> it should have a more central role.

I agree that it should have a more central role. However, I disagree
with the assumption that anyone besides you and Jeff are of questionable
persistence. Many people have coughed up resources, time and support for
the project over the past several years. While a more organized approach
is in order, it doesn't mean that you can't trust anyone besides Jeff.

Tony

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