[parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[JjDunnjr]

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Gentlepersons:
Attempting to install Debian for HPPA on my 715/75 diskless workstation.
Setup includes: 2 2gig Seagate drives, scsi, IDs set at 5 and 6
an external TEAC  CD-R55S, scsi, ID set at 2

1. Interrupt boot process with SEC
2. Get a list of boot devices, as follows:

P0   scsi.6.0 seagate ST32550N
P1   scsi.5.0 seagate ST32171N
P2   scsi 0.0 TEAC cd-R55S

enter P2, where the Debian Official CD Binary-1 HPPA  is located
Message follows:

Failed to Initialize scsi.0.0
ENTRY_INIT status= -4
80000007  00000001  00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  
00000000
00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  00000000  
00000000  
00003510  000000FF  FF0003BF 84000007  800100DC  00000000  0025F000  00000400
98080000  00000000  0000D4D8  00000000  000000FF  00000002  00000004  
00000001

Occasiionally, I can get:
ENTRY_INIT status= -7

I have tried several ways to call up this CD-RW.  I have specified the scsi 
address; I have rewritten the PATHs to direct boot up.  All to no avail
It is clear that the 715/75 recognizes the TEAC but does not recognize the 
scsi Address.

any help

Thanks in advance
jack dunn






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Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Steve Bromwich]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 JjDunnjr@aol.com wrote:

> Gentlepersons:
> Attempting to install Debian for HPPA on my 715/75 diskless workstation.
> Setup includes: 2 2gig Seagate drives, scsi, IDs set at 5 and 6
> an external TEAC  CD-R55S, scsi, ID set at 2

I believe HP machines use a 512 byte sector CD drives (with the standard
being 2048 byte). I'm not sure off-hand if the TEAC supports 512 byte
sectors. Your best bet may be to borrow a CD off a Sun machine, if you
have access to one.

Alternatively, you might have better luck doing a netboot, which I've used
with success before on a 715/75.

Cheers, Steve

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Grant Grundler]

On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 08:38:00PM -0400, Steve Bromwich wrote:
> I believe HP machines use a 512 byte sector CD drives (with the standard
> being 2048 byte). I'm not sure off-hand if the TEAC supports 512 byte
> sectors. Your best bet may be to borrow a CD off a Sun machine, if you
> have access to one.

I'm only aware of HP using 2k sectors for CD-RO.

I've never heard of 512 byte sectors in a CD Drive.
Is that a feature unique to CD-RW?

Even if that's true, the PARISC firmware expects (or will read) 2k blocks.
I suggest double checking that the CD is burned properly.

> Alternatively, you might have better luck doing a netboot, which I've used
> with success before on a 715/75.

that's a good idea too. "lifimage" files are also available that one
can directly boot from. Follow the "Net Install ISO" link from the
www.parisc-linux.org website.

hth,
grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Jan-Benedict Glaw]

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On Tue, 2003-11-18 22:59:36 -0700, Grant Grundler <grundler@parisc-linux.org>
wrote in message <20031119055936.GA17873@colo.lackof.org>:
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 08:38:00PM -0400, Steve Bromwich wrote:
> I'm only aware of HP using 2k sectors for CD-RO.
> 
> I've never heard of 512 byte sectors in a CD Drive.

Most machines != i386 actually want to have 512-Byte/Sector-capable CD
drives. These need to be equipped with appropriate firmware. It's just
because that does fit very well to 512 byte blocks from other storage
devices (like HDDs:).

> Is that a feature unique to CD-RW?

No, it's a (rare) feature ot CD-RO drives, mostly used by MIPS and SUN
machines.

> > Alternatively, you might have better luck doing a netboot, which I've used
> > with success before on a 715/75.
> 
> that's a good idea too. "lifimage" files are also available that one

Right. To anybody who's facing non-i386 machines (or even newer i386
machines with net-bootable network cards), I can only suggest to prepare
yourself with a bootserver that does everything you need for you. I've
configured some old box to do that (that is, you need dhcp/bootp, rarp,
tftp, rbootd, NFS and most probably some additional kernel configuration
like "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc" and maybe a more
limited ip_local_port_range due to SGI firmware bugs...).

Netbooting saves lots of time and even eases the task of backing-up your
test boxes if they use nfsroot:)

MfG, JBG (->going away now to play with his vax...)

-- 
   Jan-Benedict Glaw       jbglaw@lug-owl.de    . +49-172-7608481
   "Eine Freie Meinung in  einem Freien Kopf    | Gegen Zensur | Gegen Krieg
    fuer einen Freien Staat voll Freier Bürger" | im Internet! |   im Irak!
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Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Steve Bromwich]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Grant Grundler wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 08:38:00PM -0400, Steve Bromwich wrote:
> > I believe HP machines use a 512 byte sector CD drives (with the standard
> > being 2048 byte). I'm not sure off-hand if the TEAC supports 512 byte
> > sectors. Your best bet may be to borrow a CD off a Sun machine, if you
> > have access to one.
>
> I'm only aware of HP using 2k sectors for CD-RO.

Well, this is just from my own personal experience on a 715/75 (which has
now sadly bitten the dust). A google around would tend to support this
theory, for example:

http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2000-September/009345.html
"Last posting to the list was about my SCSI CD-ROM not booting the
HP-UX INSTALL CD.  Well, it turns out that NECs are in 2048 byte sector
mode whereas HP requires 512 byte mode.  SUNs and SGIs also require 512
byte sector mode.  So I just borrowed a SUN external CD-ROM..."

> I've never heard of 512 byte sectors in a CD Drive.
> Is that a feature unique to CD-RW?

It's the standard for Sun boxes (at least, on all my Sparcstations). This
of course means I don't have any SCSI 2048 byte CD drives to verify my
statement! If anyone else would like to verify it I'd be interested, and I
suppose it might not be a bad idea to add it to the FAQ if true as I'm
sure it'll bite someone else down the road.

> Even if that's true, the PARISC firmware expects (or will read) 2k blocks.
> I suggest double checking that the CD is burned properly.

It reads 2K blocks (at least, as written by my burner in 2048 byte mode)
but reads 512 bytes at a time, as I understand it.

Cheers, Steve

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[M. Grabert]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Steve Bromwich wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Grant Grundler wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 08:38:00PM -0400, Steve Bromwich wrote:
> > > I believe HP machines use a 512 byte sector CD drives (with the standard
> > > being 2048 byte). I'm not sure off-hand if the TEAC supports 512 byte
> > > sectors. Your best bet may be to borrow a CD off a Sun machine, if you
> > > have access to one.
> >
> > I'm only aware of HP using 2k sectors for CD-RO.
>
> Well, this is just from my own personal experience on a 715/75 (which has
> now sadly bitten the dust). A google around would tend to support this
> theory, for example:
>
> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2000-September/009345.html
> "Last posting to the list was about my SCSI CD-ROM not booting the
> HP-UX INSTALL CD.  Well, it turns out that NECs are in 2048 byte sector
> mode whereas HP requires 512 byte mode.  SUNs and SGIs also require 512
> byte sector mode.  So I just borrowed a SUN external CD-ROM..."
>
> > I've never heard of 512 byte sectors in a CD Drive.
> > Is that a feature unique to CD-RW?
>
> It's the standard for Sun boxes (at least, on all my Sparcstations). This
> of course means I don't have any SCSI 2048 byte CD drives to verify my
> statement! If anyone else would like to verify it I'd be interested, and I
> suppose it might not be a bad idea to add it to the FAQ if true as I'm
> sure it'll bite someone else down the road.

I have several risc boxes (SGI O2, Alpha AS500, Dec 5000, Sun SS20s and HPs),
all of them use 512bytes/sector. I'm actually not aware of any non-intel
platform that uses 2048bytes/sector for SCSI CD-drives.

I once ran into the problem that I couldn't boot from CD using an old Sun
SPARCstationLX, since the SCSI CD-drive was set to 2048bytes/sector.

Most SCSI-CD drives have a switch/jumper to select the default
bytes/sector (ie. 512 or 2048). Most 'newer' drives support to be switched
to either mode via software. 'Newer' meaning less than 8 years old.

However old workstations (like the old SPARCstation I presume) don't
support to switch the SCSI-CD-drive to the 512 mode, so you HAVE to set
the jumper on the back of the drive.

I doubt you'll find any SCSI CD-drives on the market (second hand or new)
that are so old that they support only one of these modes. I bought a
TEAC CD-writer and a Pioneer CD-drive in a ordinary PC shop about 6 years
ago, and they support both modes (and I even couldn't find any that couldn't).
They work with all SCSI machines I have.


greetings,
   Max

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Joel Soete]

Hello Max,

M. Grabert wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Steve Bromwich wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Grant Grundler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 08:38:00PM -0400, Steve Bromwich wrote:
>>>
>>>>I believe HP machines use a 512 byte sector CD drives (with the standard
>>>>being 2048 byte). I'm not sure off-hand if the TEAC supports 512 byte
>>>>sectors. Your best bet may be to borrow a CD off a Sun machine, if you
>>>>have access to one.
>>>
>>>I'm only aware of HP using 2k sectors for CD-RO.
>>
>>Well, this is just from my own personal experience on a 715/75 (which has
>>now sadly bitten the dust). A google around would tend to support this
>>theory, for example:
>>
>>http://lists.parisc-linux.org/pipermail/parisc-linux/2000-September/009345.html
>>"Last posting to the list was about my SCSI CD-ROM not booting the
>>HP-UX INSTALL CD.  Well, it turns out that NECs are in 2048 byte sector
>>mode whereas HP requires 512 byte mode.  SUNs and SGIs also require 512
>>byte sector mode.  So I just borrowed a SUN external CD-ROM..."
>>
>>
>>>I've never heard of 512 byte sectors in a CD Drive.
>>>Is that a feature unique to CD-RW?
>>
>>It's the standard for Sun boxes (at least, on all my Sparcstations). This
>>of course means I don't have any SCSI 2048 byte CD drives to verify my
>>statement! If anyone else would like to verify it I'd be interested, and I
>>suppose it might not be a bad idea to add it to the FAQ if true as I'm
>>sure it'll bite someone else down the road.
> 
> 
> I have several risc boxes (SGI O2, Alpha AS500, Dec 5000, Sun SS20s and HPs),
> all of them use 512bytes/sector. I'm actually not aware of any non-intel
> platform that uses 2048bytes/sector for SCSI CD-drives.
> 
hmm excepted HP (trust me, when I build a custom cd with Ignite to 
upgrade our ws (about 80 of various model: 712, b132, b180 & c110) from 
10.01 to 10.20, I have to take care of this detail to build the basic fs)

> I once ran into the problem that I couldn't boot from CD using an old Sun
> SPARCstationLX, since the SCSI CD-drive was set to 2048bytes/sector.
> 
> Most SCSI-CD drives have a switch/jumper to select the default
> bytes/sector (ie. 512 or 2048). Most 'newer' drives support to be switched
> to either mode via software. 'Newer' meaning less than 8 years old.
> 
> However old workstations (like the old SPARCstation I presume) don't
> support to switch the SCSI-CD-drive to the 512 mode, so you HAVE to set
> the jumper on the back of the drive.
> 
> I doubt you'll find any SCSI CD-drives on the market (second hand or new)
> that are so old that they support only one of these modes. I bought a
> TEAC CD-writer and a Pioneer CD-drive in a ordinary PC shop about 6 years
> ago, and they support both modes (and I even couldn't find any that couldn't).
> They work with all SCSI machines I have.
> 
> 
Thanks for those all info (well I don't have to manage a so wide range 
of ws supplier) but I ignored this before ;)

Joel

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Ruediger Scholz]

Hi,
JjDunnjr@aol.com schrieb:

>
> I have tried several ways to call up this CD-RW.  I have specified the 
> scsi address; I have rewritten the PATHs to direct boot up.  All to no 
> avail
> It is clear that the 715/75 recognizes the TEAC but does not recognize 
> the scsi Address.

have you checked whether the external scsi bus is correctly terminated? 
Perhaps that why your machine doesn't recognize the scsi address.
FYI, i have a Plextor cd-drive connected to my 715/100 (internal), which 
works without any problems.

>
> any help
>
> Thanks in advance
> jack dunn

Ruediger

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[JjDunnjr]

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To all who took the time to reply, thank you
Progress to date:
1. Set jumper to 512 k sector on the TEAC.  715/75 recognized it as a 
different model.
2. It spun the disk upon issuing the "bo P2" command, however, i still got 
the
ENTRY_INIT =-4 message

I will try to do a net boot next

if that fails, I will try to copy onto the boot 715/75 hard drive the 
necessary files.  Which leads me to my next question, which files(s) would be 
necessary for the 715/75 to boot

Would "lifimage" be enough or should i place "rescue.bin", "linux.bin" and 
"drivers.gz" on the hard drive

Thanks in advance for your remarkable response.

jack dunn

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Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Grant Grundler]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 03:45:02PM -0500, JjDunnjr@aol.com wrote:
> To all who took the time to reply, thank you
> Progress to date:
> 1. Set jumper to 512 k sector on the TEAC.  715/75 recognized it as a 
> different model.

very good - I'm amazed I hadn't heard about the 512 vs 2k sectors before.
But it's been 8 years since I seriously poked at SCSI devices.

> 2. It spun the disk upon issuing the "bo P2" command, however, i still got 
> the
> ENTRY_INIT =-4 message

The PA I/O Architecture Control Document (aka IO ACD) describes the 
ENTRY_INIT returns codes. See "Documentation" on www.parisc-linux.org.

> I will try to do a net boot next
> 
> if that fails, I will try to copy onto the boot 715/75 hard drive the 
> necessary files.  Which leads me to my next question, which files(s) would be 
> necessary for the 715/75 to boot
> 
> Would "lifimage" be enough or should i place "rescue.bin", "linux.bin" and 
> "drivers.gz" on the hard drive

Only the lifimage.
You will need two hard disks.
dd the lifimage you get from ftp.parisc-linux.org onto one harddisk and
 then boot the parisc machine from that disk. Install on the other disk.

It would be useful to check (via the "execute a shell" option) if the CD
is readable by the OS. If so, it can be used as an install source.
It's possible the CD is still readable but not bootable because
the CD burning SW used might have mangled the .ISO data.

hth,
grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Boot-up challenges on a 715/75

[Grant Grundler]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 09:57:31PM -0700, Grant Grundler wrote:
> > 2. It spun the disk upon issuing the "bo P2" command, however, i still got 
> > the
> > ENTRY_INIT =-4 message
> 
> The PA I/O Architecture Control Document (aka IO ACD) describes the 
> ENTRY_INIT returns codes. See "Documentation" on www.parisc-linux.org.

sorry - it's called "iodc.pdf" on
	http://www.parisc-linux.org/documentation/index.html

-4	Unrecoverable hardware error
	A hardware error on the module or device prevented the call
	from completing correctly.
	CONDITIONAL. Must be used if hardware errors are isolated.

Sounds like either a problem with the CD or the CD-ROM drive.

grant