Java intragration

Java intragration

[R2-Q2]

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Would it be a good idea to intragrate Java into the operating system.
Possibally it could be faster if it was. Java is known to be secure and
there are many open source vm's out there. Or we just could install it
into the OS using SUN's or IBM's version. Though probally SUN because
they have the latest version.

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Re: Java intragration

[Tom]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 10:28:54PM -0800, R2-Q2 wrote:
> Would it be a good idea to intragrate Java into the operating system.
> Possibally it could be faster if it was. Java is known to be secure and
> there are many open source vm's out there. Or we just could install it
> into the OS using SUN's or IBM's version. Though probally SUN because
> they have the latest version.

I'd be careful with "known to be secure". AFAIK there's *one* computer
system on this planet that is known to be secure. For everything else,
we assume.

As to integration - it already is. Select "misc" in Linux' binary file
format support option during kernel configuration, and you can run java
files just like ELF executables. How much more integration do you want?
The VM as part of the kernel? I may be 80ish, but that kind of bloat
gives me physical pain.


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Re: Java intragration

[Stephen Smalley]

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, R2-Q2 wrote:

> Would it be a good idea to intragrate Java into the operating system.
> Possibally it could be faster if it was. Java is known to be secure and
> there are many open source vm's out there. Or we just could install it
> into the OS using SUN's or IBM's version. Though probally SUN because
> they have the latest version.

You might want to read the FAQ (http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/faq.html),
since that clarifies what SELinux is about.  Your postings seem rather
off-topic and irrelevant to the focus of SELinux.

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Stephen D. Smalley, NAI Labs
ssmalley@nai.com




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Re: Java intragration

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:21, Tom wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 10:28:54PM -0800, R2-Q2 wrote:
> > Would it be a good idea to intragrate Java into the operating system.
> > Possibally it could be faster if it was. Java is known to be secure and
> > there are many open source vm's out there. Or we just could install it
> > into the OS using SUN's or IBM's version. Though probally SUN because
> > they have the latest version.
>
> I'd be careful with "known to be secure". AFAIK there's *one* computer
> system on this planet that is known to be secure. For everything else,
> we assume.

What is this one computer?

I believe that the Z80 based computer I assembled when I was 11 was secure.  
Input through a hex keypad, output on 7 segment displays (no tempest), and 
stored safely under my bed.  ;)

But presumably you have different criteria as to what makes a machine "known 
to be secure".

Regarding Java security, I'd trust SE Linux security over Java security any 
day (I'd even trust the usual Unix DAC more than Java security).

> As to integration - it already is. Select "misc" in Linux' binary file
> format support option during kernel configuration, and you can run java
> files just like ELF executables. How much more integration do you want?
> The VM as part of the kernel? I may be 80ish, but that kind of bloat
> gives me physical pain.

There have been technology demonstrations of OSs written entirely in Java.  
Never been released though AFAIK.

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Re: Java intragration

[Jesse Pollard]

 R2-Q2 <r2q2@rocketmail.com>:
> 
> Would it be a good idea to intragrate Java into the operating system.
> Possibally it could be faster if it was. Java is known to be secure and
> there are many open source vm's out there. Or we just could install it
> into the OS using SUN's or IBM's version. Though probally SUN because
> they have the latest version.

I think you will find the memory management model used to track objects
to be too incompatable with kernel memory management. Most of the JVMs
I have run across (only two, so limited experience here) indicate that
they expect a flat memory modle, and do not handle holes in memory at
all since that breaks the security model being implemented.

Now if it were the JavaOS now, that is a different animal. But it isn't
Linux.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse I Pollard, II
Email: pollard@navo.hpc.mil

Any opinions expressed are solely my own.

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Re: Java intragration

[Tom]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 02:54:13PM +0100, Russell Coker wrote:
> > I'd be careful with "known to be secure". AFAIK there's *one* computer
> > system on this planet that is known to be secure. For everything else,
> > we assume.
> 
> What is this one computer?

AFAIK there is an A1 system in cheyenne mountains that was
mathematically proved to be correct, i.e. "secure" as defined in the
specs.


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