[parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[B. Douglas Hilton]

I just scarfed up a somewhat used Voodoo3 PCI graphics
card from Ebay and intend to try it out with Debian/HPPA
and a custom built kernel.

I hope to compile a tdfx.o drm module and get the card
recognized via a PALO boot command. I will use a dumb
terminal for the system console during initial booting.

Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Carlos O'Donell]

> I just scarfed up a somewhat used Voodoo3 PCI graphics
> card from Ebay and intend to try it out with Debian/HPPA
> and a custom built kernel.
> 
> I hope to compile a tdfx.o drm module and get the card
> recognized via a PALO boot command. I will use a dumb
> terminal for the system console during initial booting.
> 
> Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)
> 

Stop trying to use the card as your console :)

Stick with a serial console for startup and then launch X
from that console.

It's my dream to get a Radeon 7000 PCI running on a C3K, 
but that will have to wait until September. I'm very interested
in this test... since I'm a burgeoning DRI/DRM developer :)

If you have any problems please post to:

dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 

or visit

#dri-devel on irc.openprojects.net

Good luck!

c.

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[M. Grabert]

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, B. Douglas Hilton wrote:

> I just scarfed up a somewhat used Voodoo3 PCI graphics
> card from Ebay and intend to try it out with Debian/HPPA
> and a custom built kernel.
>
> I hope to compile a tdfx.o drm module and get the card
> recognized via a PALO boot command. I will use a dumb
> terminal for the system console during initial booting.

I think I have to disappoint you. I doesn't work for me :-(

I did exactly the same thing, I got a Voodoo 3 3000 from ebay and put it
into my C240 (it's very similar to the C200 series).
I tried both 32bit and 64bit PCI slots, but XFree86's Voodoo driver
seems to have some problems with 64bit PCI (at least some guru from
the p-l mailing list suggested this after reading my XFree86 logs).

But unfortunately sticking the Voodoo into a 32bit PCI slot doesn't get
much further: starting XFree86 will cause a HPMC shortly after a message
like "Lasi: barking without apparent reason" (obviously from gsc/lasi.c).
This is just before it is about to initialize the Voodoo3 (with the
Intel emulator in XFree86). At least the messages printed on the console
seem to be like the last messages XFree86 usually prints out just before
activating the graphics card on other platforms.

Finally I even took out the (not yet supported) HP Visualize-FX2 card
(64bit slot), just to get sure that there were no conflict with other PCI
hardware. I'm using (or should I say: I have to use) the serial console
anyway.

BTW, of course you must not compile the Voodoo FrameBuffer device, and
I don't use the DRI driver either (just to be sure); just use XFree86
driver.

I recently found a message on the debian-alpha mailing list (this month)
were some tried to get a Voodoo3 running on a AlphaStation. He succeeded
by adding 'Option "NoINT10"' to XF86Config, but this didn't work for me.
This would have been very surprising, since Alpha and HPPA are totally
different architectures anyway, but who knows ...

My last attempt was with 2.4.19-pa2; still the same error.

greetings max

[parisc-linux] Hints to debug, was: Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[M. Grabert]

On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, M. Grabert wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, B. Douglas Hilton wrote:
>
> > I just scarfed up a somewhat used Voodoo3 PCI graphics
> > card from Ebay and intend to try it out with Debian/HPPA
> > and a custom built kernel.

[...]

> I think I have to disappoint you. I doesn't work for me :-(

[...]

> But unfortunately sticking the Voodoo into a 32bit PCI slot doesn't get
> much further: starting XFree86 will cause a HPMC shortly after a message
> like "Lasi: barking without apparent reason" (obviously from gsc/lasi.c).
> This is just before it is about to initialize the Voodoo3 (with the
> Intel emulator in XFree86). At least the messages printed on the console
> seem to be like the last messages XFree86 usually prints out just before
> activating the graphics card on other platforms.

Does anybody can give me some hints what to do to debug this issue?
I'm not a kernel hacker, and I don't have any knowledge about PA-RISC
linux internals and PA-RISC assembler programming (but I hope I'll improve
this situation in the future ;)

However I know C quite well (and debugging, stack manipulation, reverse
engineering), and I used it not only as a hobby.

Can anybody give me some hints how I should compile the kernel (-g), how
and if I should use the kernel debugger and recompile X with debugging
symbols in order to get some more interesting information about how and
why it Voodoo/X fails on PA-RISC linux? I'm sure will not be able to fix
the problem, but I probably can feed you with some information that will
help you to locate and solve the problem.
At least this is an interesting/annoying bug for two people (probably
more) and we could investigate it a little bit more while you don't have
to waste too much time on this issue yourself.

greetings max

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Grant Grundler]

"B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)

Search the mail archives.
Once upon a time (2 years ago?), Alan Cox explained his ideas
on how to make something like this work. He had an A180 in front
of him at the time...

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Grant Grundler]

"M. Grabert" wrote:
> I recently found a message on the debian-alpha mailing list (this month)
> were some tried to get a Voodoo3 running on a AlphaStation. He succeeded
> by adding 'Option "NoINT10"' to XF86Config, but this didn't work for me.
> This would have been very surprising, since Alpha and HPPA are totally
> different architectures anyway, but who knows ...

The biggest difference between Alpha and parisc is Alpha has weakly ordered
memory. Reminds me of the saying: "My enemy's enemy is my friend"

BTW, ia64 on HP ZX1 doesn't like int10 either.

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Hints to debug, was: Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Grant Grundler]

"M. Grabert" wrote:
> Does anybody can give me some hints what to do to debug this issue?

Here's a start.

You want to get the HPMC state from firmware. interrupt the
boot process and type "ser pim" at the firmware prompt.
You want to look at gr02 (return pointer) and IOAQ (aka offset, IP).
IOAQ points at the instruction that tripped the HPMC handling.
It wasn't necessarily the cause. Look up the symbol in the
System.map with "buildtools/a.c" (another CVS repository on
cvs.parisc-linux.org).

IOAQ might point to user space if X11 server is involved.
We'll have to look at PSW bits and/or Space registers to determine that.

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Alan Cox]

On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 05:46, Grant Grundler wrote:
> "B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> > Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)
> 
> Search the mail archives.
> Once upon a time (2 years ago?), Alan Cox explained his ideas
> on how to make something like this work. He had an A180 in front
> of him at the time...

I really doubt you will get a Voodoo3 to work this way. XFree have lots
of problems with the Voodoo3 INT10 multihead even on x86 - the ROM seems
to do some quite tricky stuff.

On the other hand a Voodoo2 should work wonderfully because its got no
ROM, doesn't appear to be a video card and Glide2 has full source for
bringing the board up.

XFree86 also supports using it as a 2D device, but not currently (alas
8)) DRI and Xv also. 

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[d p chang]

delurking briefly since i worked on these parts (v2 and banshee-v3
which are basically the same) during my tenure at 3dfx.

Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> writes:

> On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 05:46, Grant Grundler wrote:
> > "B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
> > > Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)
> > 
> > Search the mail archives.
> > Once upon a time (2 years ago?), Alan Cox explained his ideas
> > on how to make something like this work. He had an A180 in front
> > of him at the time...
> 
> I really doubt you will get a Voodoo3 to work this way. XFree have
> lots of problems with the Voodoo3 INT10 multihead even on x86 - the
> ROM seems to do some quite tricky stuff.

I'll check my old mail archives, but the part taht you really want is
just the timing tables in the rom. If you're looking at the code in
cinit.c it had bitrotted quite badly after the initial bring up. 

However, it used to be possible to change the device type multimedia
(rather than video) and do all the initcode stuff. There was a little
jumper on the cards themselves for this

> On the other hand a Voodoo2 should work wonderfully because its got
> no ROM, doesn't appear to be a video card and Glide2 has full source
> for bringing the board up.

yup, no 2d on voodoo2, but sort of lame just as a framebuffer device
(well, if you want to use the command transport bits)

\p
---
A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man.  In
order to get anywhere near high office he has to make so many
compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes
indistinguishable from a streetwalker. --- H. L. Mencken

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo3 PCI on C200 experiment pending!

[Alan Cox]

On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 17:53, d p chang wrote:
> yup, no 2d on voodoo2, but sort of lame just as a framebuffer device
> (well, if you want to use the command transport bits)

XFree86 supports it nicely as a 2D card nowdays. True its not exactly
accelerated but it works. I use a couple for debugging displays

[parisc-linux] Voodoo2 PCI as XFree86 2D board on HP9000 C200

[B. Douglas Hilton]

Voodoo2 it is then. I'm sorry but these HP graphics cards
are terrible for X. 8-bit color is really the bottom of the
barrel, and if I can get 16bpp on a Voodoo2 then its well
worth the few bucks one costs these days, plus it adds an
exotic air to the machine... "A HP workstation with a 3dfx
voodoo2 ... oooh aaah." Hmm, might even be able to find some
ancient Quake source with glide support and get it to work.

I used to have a V2 running in Linux several years ago, before
the Banshee, before the Geforce. It really did kick butt and
Quake and Quake2 were super nifty with it. I had my own version
of Mesa compiled with Voodoo2 support and was the envy of my
Linux buddies :-)

What do I do, just use the jumper cable to link the
Visualize-EG to the voodoo2, and start up X? Obviously
I will need the glide libs, but will I also need /dev/tdfx?
Can the Voodoo2 tdfx module be compiled for a 2.4.19-pa3 kernel?

What about console switching? If X is running on the Voodoo2,
and I hit Alt-F2, will it switch back to the Visualize-EG like
it should?

Alan, if you could find a few minutes to send me your XF86Config-4
for one of these boards, or otherwise post some useful tips and
hints that would be great. V2 boards are extremely cheap on Ebay
and such these days, and those monsters deserve a fitting home
in something like a parisc box rather than a dumpster.

Cheers!
- Doug



Alan Cox wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-08-18 at 05:46, Grant Grundler wrote:
> 
>>"B. Douglas Hilton" wrote:
>>
>>>Any hints or tips would be appreciated :-)
>>
>>Search the mail archives.
>>Once upon a time (2 years ago?), Alan Cox explained his ideas
>>on how to make something like this work. He had an A180 in front
>>of him at the time...
> 
> 
> I really doubt you will get a Voodoo3 to work this way. XFree have lots
> of problems with the Voodoo3 INT10 multihead even on x86 - the ROM seems
> to do some quite tricky stuff.
> 
> On the other hand a Voodoo2 should work wonderfully because its got no
> ROM, doesn't appear to be a video card and Glide2 has full source for
> bringing the board up.
> 
> XFree86 also supports using it as a 2D device, but not currently (alas
> 8)) DRI and Xv also. 
> 
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo2 PCI as XFree86 2D board on HP9000 C200

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 2002-08-22 at 02:55, B. Douglas Hilton wrote:
> I used to have a V2 running in Linux several years ago, before
> the Banshee, before the Geforce. It really did kick butt and
> Quake and Quake2 were super nifty with it. I had my own version
> of Mesa compiled with Voodoo2 support and was the envy of my
> Linux buddies :-)

You'll need to rebuild glide2 and get it going on the box first, so that
is actually a good starting point anyway. 

> What do I do, just use the jumper cable to link the
> Visualize-EG to the voodoo2, and start up X? Obviously
> I will need the glide libs, but will I also need /dev/tdfx?
> Can the Voodoo2 tdfx module be compiled for a 2.4.19-pa3 kernel?

You can do that, or you can run dual head

> What about console switching? If X is running on the Voodoo2,
> and I hit Alt-F2, will it switch back to the Visualize-EG like
> it should?

It does on x86 ... There is also sstfb which is a frame buffer/console
text driver for the voodoo1/2. That might need some endianisation. I'm
wondering if a USB card and a voodoo2 can turn even an A180 into a
desktop ;)

Re: [parisc-linux] Voodoo2 PCI as XFree86 2D board on HP9000 C200

[Carlos O'Donell]

> 
> It does on x86 ... There is also sstfb which is a frame buffer/console
> text driver for the voodoo1/2. That might need some endianisation. I'm
> wondering if a USB card and a voodoo2 can turn even an A180 into a
> desktop ;)
> 

I hope to get a PCI Radeon 7000 this weekend to turn a C3K into
a _killer_ workstation ;)

c.