RE:Re: TUX2 filesystem

RE:Re: TUX2 filesystem

[Hank Leininger]

On 2002-08-26, <Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net> wrote:

> what patent issues.???

[ Please beat your mail{reader,vendor} into defaulting to bottom-posting ]

> On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de> wrote: 
> > Maybe yourself, Daniel, care to comment ?

> It's well down my list of priorities because of uncertainties due to
> the U.S. patent system.
>
> Does anybody want to know if patent chill exists, and is it hurting
> open source?  The answer is yes.

I'm guessing Daniel is referring to NetApp/WAFL issues.  NetApp's WAFL
filesystem (IIRC) implements something which is kinda sorta if-you-squint-
your-eyes philosophically similar to tux2's phase tree.  Only

a) It isn't *really* all that similar
b) Daniel has prior art going back to the 1980's
c) NetApp has more lawyers on staff than Daniel does

Daniel, did I get it vaguely right?

--
Hank Leininger <hlein@progressive-comp.com> 
  

Re: Re: TUX2 filesystem

[Daniel Phillips]

On Monday 26 August 2002 22:06, Hank Leininger wrote:
> On 2002-08-26, <Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net> wrote:
> 
> > what patent issues.???
> 
> [ Please beat your mail{reader,vendor} into defaulting to bottom-posting ]
> 
> > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de> wrote: 
> > > Maybe yourself, Daniel, care to comment ?
> 
> > It's well down my list of priorities because of uncertainties due to
> > the U.S. patent system.
> >
> > Does anybody want to know if patent chill exists, and is it hurting
> > open source?  The answer is yes.
> 
> I'm guessing Daniel is referring to NetApp/WAFL issues.  NetApp's WAFL
> filesystem (IIRC) implements something which is kinda sorta if-you-squint-
> your-eyes philosophically similar to tux2's phase tree.  Only
> 
> a) It isn't *really* all that similar
> b) Daniel has prior art going back to the 1980's
> c) NetApp has more lawyers on staff than Daniel does
> 
> Daniel, did I get it vaguely right

That about sums it up.

-- 
Daniel

Re: Re: TUX2 filesystem

[Daniel Mose]

Daniel Phillips wrote:
> On Monday 26 August 2002 22:06, Hank Leininger wrote:
> > On 2002-08-26, <Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > what patent issues.???
> > 
> > [ Please beat your mail{reader,vendor} into defaulting to bottom-posting ]
> > 
> > > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 Daniel Phillips <phillips@arcor.de> wrote: 
> > > > Maybe yourself, Daniel, care to comment ?
> > 
> > > It's well down my list of priorities because of uncertainties due to
> > > the U.S. patent system.
> > >
> > > Does anybody want to know if patent chill exists, and is it hurting
> > > open source?  The answer is yes.
> > 
> > I'm guessing Daniel is referring to NetApp/WAFL issues.  NetApp's WAFL
> > filesystem (IIRC) implements something which is kinda sorta if-you-squint-
> > your-eyes philosophically similar to tux2's phase tree.  Only
> > 
> > a) It isn't *really* all that similar
> > b) Daniel has prior art going back to the 1980's
> > c) NetApp has more lawyers on staff than Daniel does
> > 
> > Daniel, did I get it vaguely right
> 
> That about sums it up.
> -- 
> Daniel

Well perhaps the patent part, but I sort of got curious 
on it, by this posting. Is there any patches or documentation 
available. I'm going to put my nose deep into the world of 
experimental file systems this winter, and hopefully come up with 
something useful, so I would appreciate anything that describes 
it's general ideas.

kind regards
/Daniel Mose

Re: Re: TUX2 filesystem

[yodaiken]

On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:49:35AM +0200, Daniel Mose wrote:
> Well perhaps the patent part, but I sort of got curious 
> on it, by this posting. Is there any patches or documentation 
> available. I'm going to put my nose deep into the world of 
> experimental file systems this winter, and hopefully come up with 
> something useful, so I would appreciate anything that describes 
> it's general ideas.


See:

Borg, Wolfgang Blau, Wolfgang Graetsch, Ferdinand Herrmann, Wolfgang Oberle: Fault Tolerance Under UNIX. TOCS 7(1): 1-24 (1989)
1986

also:

Anita Borg, Wolfgang Blau, Wolfgang Oberle, Wolfgang Graetsch: Fault Tolerance in Distributed UNIX. Fault-Tolerant Distributed Computing 1986: 224-243
1983
 Anita Borg, Jim Baumbach, Sam Glazer: A Message System Supporting Fault Tolerance. SOSP 1983: 90-99


The earliest description I've heard of this idea was from Sam Glazer in 1982.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
Victor Yodaiken 
Finite State Machine Labs: The RTLinux Company.
 www.fsmlabs.com  www.rtlinux.com

Re: Re: TUX2 filesystem

[Daniel Phillips]

On Thursday 29 August 2002 01:14, yodaiken@fsmlabs.com wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:49:35AM +0200, Daniel Mose wrote:
> > Well perhaps the patent part, but I sort of got curious 
> > on it, by this posting. Is there any patches or documentation 
> > available. I'm going to put my nose deep into the world of 
> > experimental file systems this winter, and hopefully come up with 
> > something useful, so I would appreciate anything that describes 
> > it's general ideas.
> 
> See:
> 
> Borg, Wolfgang Blau, Wolfgang Graetsch, Ferdinand Herrmann, Wolfgang 
> Oberle: Fault Tolerance Under UNIX. TOCS 7(1): 1-24 (1989)
> 1986
> 
> also:
> 
> Anita Borg, Wolfgang Blau, Wolfgang Oberle, Wolfgang Graetsch: Fault 
> Tolerance in Distributed UNIX. Fault-Tolerant Distributed Computing 1986: 
> 224-243
>
> 1983  Anita Borg, Jim Baumbach, Sam Glazer: A Message System Supporting 
> Fault Tolerance. SOSP 1983: 90-99
> 
> The earliest description I've heard of this idea was from Sam Glazer in 
> 1982.

Thanks, Victor

-- 
Daniel